The Trump Presidency, Season 2

Jopsy Pendragon

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This provides some useful background

Informative... but unfortunately the White House has appointed enough Pidgeons to play chess for the judicial branch that they don't need to prepare or make compelling legal arguments. They just have to keep trying until luck allows them to establish a precedent they can cite for future judicial abuses.
 

Innula Zenovka

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Informative... but unfortunately the White House has appointed enough Pidgeons to play chess for the judicial branch that they don't need to prepare or make compelling legal arguments. They just have to keep trying until luck allows them to establish a precedent they can cite for future judicial abuses.
I dunno. There are two separate legal questions here. The first is whether the president has power to send these men to labour camp in El Salvador without reference to the courts. That should be enough to give anyone other than Alito and Thomas -- who are shamelessly partisan and corrupt -- serious cause for concern.

The second, though, is whether the executive can ignore a court order simply because it disagrees with it, or it thinks the court got it wrong, and it's very difficult to imagine the Supreme Court (again, apart perhaps from Alito and Thomas) would feel comfortable letting that one through. To me, as someone used to the English legal system, it's unthinkable, and it's difficult to see how even the most partisan Supreme Court judge could come up with a ruling that didn't make a complete nonsense of the US law of equity.
 

Grey Mars

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To me, as someone used to the English legal system, it's unthinkable, and it's difficult to see how even the most partisan Supreme Court judge could come up with a ruling that didn't make a complete nonsense of the US law of equity.
The unthinkable has become commonplace. We are deep into the territory where there are no longer guards and protections because no one at all thought it could get this corrupt, partisan, and insane.

I am out of hope. Perhaps it's a good thing everyone will be dead in around 50 years.
 

Tigger

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It feels like all of our systems are based around the idea that a leader will follow the rules and act in good faith. We need a system able to shut down and enforce rulings against a bad actor.
 

Bartholomew Gallacher

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You might remember Captain Jellico, who took over command of the USS Enterprise for 2 episodes from Captain Picard. Jellico is most famous for his strict way to remodel the Enterprise's shifts and other stuff to his liking, suspending Will Riker and making Data his successor. Jellico was the Anti-Picard, and remodeled the ship in his style with not much room or love for debate.

One main scene is about talks with the Cardassians aboard the Enterprise. When the Cardassian delegation arrived, Jellico went straight into his ready room and let the delegation wait for over an hour on purpose.

He's explaing why here:


Why am I telling this? Well, Trump now had his phone call with Putin. Putin made Trump wait for one hour, in the meantime Putin addressed business leaders at a Moscow conference.

 

Sid

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It feels like all of our systems are based around the idea that a leader will follow the rules and act in good faith. We need a system able to shut down and enforce rulings against a bad actor.
The current government will certainly not install those changes.
I even wonder if there will be any free elections in the future of the USA that could make those changes possible, since the orange baboon thinks he can rule like an emperor. If he feels that no further elections are needed.... 😢
 
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Ellie

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I saw somewhere that fleets of drones are bombing Teslas in mall parking lots with paint bombs, acid-filled balloons, & dog shit.
 
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Sid

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I saw somewhere that fleets of drones are bombing Teslas in mall parking lots with paint bombs, acid-filled balloons, & dog shit. Hope so.
People who bought an EV did this for the environment and a Tesla was a good car for that purpose.
I totally understand your feelings towards Musk, but personally I don't think that those people should be punished because Musk went totally crazy once appointed by Trump.
 

Ellie

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People who bought an EV did this for the environment and a Tesla was a good car for that purpose.
I totally understand your feelings towards Musk, but personally I don't think that those people should be punished because Musk went totally crazy once appointed by Trump.
Agree to a point. But not that Teslas are good vehicles. Buyers of Teslas are not impoverished, many are even wealthy, and hopefully, well able to afford another vehicle. There are many cheaper and far more reliable EVs on the market, no need to buy from this company.

The point is to protest Musk, not the owners.

It's working. Insurance premiums for them are soaring. The company wants to replace him, and he's attempting to change the law to allow him to get another huge payment from them.

I wouldn't say I have 'feelings' towards Musk, just want to see this monster afflicting the lives of millions gone as soon as possible. He was raised in luxury & lived few days of his life without what he needed to live. His lack of empathy for those whose money he proposes stealing appalls me.

(Disclaimer: Not advocating violence, just pranks)

"Evil, I think, is the absence of empathy. "attributed to Captain G.M. Gilbert, an Army psychologist at the Nuremberg trials
 
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Jopsy Pendragon

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It feels like all of our systems are based around the idea that a leader will follow the rules and act in good faith. We need a system able to shut down and enforce rulings against a bad actor.
All our systems are based around the idea that an informed electorate will -choose- leaders that follow the rules. With election terms in enough of a staggered fashion so that if a bad egg slips through the others will still have enough of a quorum to reign them in or impeach them out.

I don't think the founding fathers anticipated that our electoral college would be gamed so savagely by the relentless pressure from big-money interests.
 

Jopsy Pendragon

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(paraphrased below)
Can the president send these men to labour camp in El Salvador without reference to the courts. And:
Can the executive can ignore a court order

The answer to both, unfortunately is: He can, until someone finds a way to stop him.

Federal court decisions are enforced -by- the Executive Branch. If the president tells his administration to follow his own orders instead of the courts, he can back that up by firing anyone who refuses.

It then falls to his cabinet to invoke the 25th to declare him incompetent (and many avian primates will sally forth from my rectal orifice before THAT happens.)

Which leaves congress to impeach the him and hold a trial (I think the chief justice is supposed to preside over the trial held by the senate). Which is going to require a blue landslide in the midterms.

And if he refuses to leave after being symbolically removed from office... and the federal agents responsible for physically removing him from the white house also refuse to remove him... then what happens?

We're definitely in the -dumbest- timeline, not just the darkest.
 

Cindy Claveau

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I know this POS is an evil horrible person. But I almost feel bad. Absolutely zero people around him, including his own family give a shit about his mental health. Like I know the empathy is probably misplaced but if I posted shit like this on social media even my exes would be like "Maybe we should go check on him?"
My ability to empathize and sympathize with DT stop cold the day he rode down the escalator.

Nothing's changed. He could be drawn and quartered by angry beavers and I wouldn't lose a wink of sleep.

(That's youir cue, Canada!)
 

Innula Zenovka

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It feels like all of our systems are based around the idea that a leader will follow the rules and act in good faith. We need a system able to shut down and enforce rulings against a bad actor.
This is one of the many advantages of having a parliamentary democracy with a ceremonial head of state, at whose pleasure the PM serves.

An example from Tim Shipman's book Out

Cummings said he wanted to hear what would happen if Johnson didn’t send the letter and broke the law. The prime minister interjected, ‘What if I just wrote “Up yours!” on it?’ Eadie and MacNamara exchanged a look. MacNamara explained that the Benn Act dictated the exact wording of the letter which must be sent. Cummings was adamant, ‘Well we just won’t send it.’ Gesturing at Johnson, he added, ‘They can put you in jail.’

MacNamara could see Cummings was bristling for a fight, but she was in no mood for equivocation either. She thought it ridiculous that she had had to come in on a day off to point out to the prime minister that he could not just break an Act of Parliament and get away with it. ‘Well you can’t do that,’ she said.

‘Where does it say you can’t do that?’ Cummings asked.

MacNamara warned that if the government set out to break the law, officials would down tools. ‘The civil service can’t work for you. If you want to do that, it’s the law, none of us can work for you.’ The mutiny threat was back.

Cummings had previously contemplated the ultimate photo opportunity to dramatise Johnson’s desire to deliver Brexit. ‘We’ll just barricade the door and the police can fuck off. They’ll have to break the fucking door down.’ Another Vote Leaver said, ‘There was serious conversation about what happens if the police come to arrest the PM. We couldn’t think of a better visual of how determined Boris was to deliver Brexit.’ Johnson chipped in, ‘I’ll barricade myself in.’ He then recounted the story of an uncle who went mad and holed up in Newham Town Hall under police siege. ‘They’ll have to winkle me out with a flamethrower.’ MacNamara thought they had both misunderstood how his scenario would play out. Far from protecting Johnson from a policeman with a warrant for his arrest, those guarding the building would be the ones arresting him. ‘The police don’t work for you in that situation, Dom, they work for me,’ she said. ‘They work for us. It’s not your building. These aren’t your people. The police work for the Queen. We all work for the Queen.’ Johnson confirmed later: ‘She did say that.’

Eddie Lister, who was also present, had another question: ‘Can the Queen sack the prime minister?’

‘Do you really want us to have to advise the monarch that she’s going to have to ask you to stand down?’ MacNamara snapped.

Johnson, losing his nerve, blurted, ‘This might be getting a bit out of hand!’ Another source said, ‘He wasn’t keen to serve at Her Majesty’s pleasure.’
Similarly, the Government was forced to back down over its plans to prorogue Parliament and, rather more recently, over plans to deport asylum seekers to Rwanda.
 
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Dancien

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My ability to empathize and sympathize with DT stop cold the day he rode down the escalator.

Nothing's changed. He could be drawn and quartered by angry beavers and I wouldn't lose a wink of sleep.

(That's youir cue, Canada!)
I was going to briefly argue but then this morning I found out they removed the Navajo Code Talkers and Ira Hayes from the DoD and Marine websites as well as removed a lot of references to the Tuskegee Airmen and the Women's Air Corps. So yes, drawn and quartered by beavers (or castores if the Mexican North American beavers want to get in on this) is perfectly acceptable.
 

Jopsy Pendragon

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I was going to briefly argue but then this morning I found out they removed the Navajo Code Talkers and Ira Hayes from the DoD and Marine websites as well as removed a lot of references to the Tuskegee Airmen and the Women's Air Corps. So yes, drawn and quartered by beavers (or castores if the Mexican North American beavers want to get in on this) is perfectly acceptable.
I suspect this is pure vengeance in response to the movement to remove Confederate names from military bases and memorials/statues.

I'd wager that more than a few sponsors/volunteers/helpers on the Project2025 mess dove in as a result of feeling like their "Dixie Heritage" was under attack... and that this censorship/purge is just pure retaliation.