The 2024 U.S. Presidential race

[Innula Zenovka]

All presidents and prime ministers should have to pass a medical at regular intervals. And it should be an independent board, not their personal physicians, that administers the medical.

I think PMs and US Presidents are in a rather different position, since the President serves as a result of the electoral college vote, while the PM is appointed by the monarch on the basis that she or he is able to command a stable majority in Parliament.

As Liz Truss and Boris Johnson both demonstrated, as did Margaret Thatcher rather less recently, when the ruling party loses confidence in the PM for whatever reason, the PM is replaced pretty quickly.

Replacing the US President on the grounds of ill-health, at least if they don't want to be replaced, is a rather more complex process, since it involves invoking the 25th Amendment, which can be done unilaterally by the Vice President and 8 cabinet officials but, if the President doesn't want to be removed, it takes a two thirds majority in both houses to confirm the removal. Otherwise a potentially rather aggrieved President is automatically returned to office.

I don't see how such a measure would remove Donald Trump if, God forbid, things go sideways in the election or the electoral college, and I don't see it's necessary in the UK, where the last PM to serve while incapacitated was, I think, Winston Churchill during his final term in office.

 

[Bill Fletcher]

I try not to pay much attention to the election news. I mean are they kidding me? Harris vs. Trump? Somewhere a bunch of rich billionaires who run everything is laughing at us because we take this shit seriously like it matters who gets elected, nothing significant ever changes, the rich get richer and everyone else gets screwed. There is a proposal on the ballot to legalize marijuana in Florida, I will show up, vote yes on that, and walk out.

 

[CronoCloud Creeggan]

I try not to pay much attention to the election news. I mean are they kidding me? Harris vs. Trump? Somewhere a bunch of rich billionaires who run everything is laughing at us because we take this shit seriously like it matters who gets elected, nothing significant ever changes, the rich get richer and everyone else gets screwed. There is a proposal on the ballot to legalize marijuana in Florida, I will show up, vote yes on that, and walk out.

Don't be a reflexive contrarian, that makes you part of the problem, not the solution.

You want change? That means supporting change at ALL levels of government...with a 2/3rd's majority. Getting 2/3rds of Americans to agree on anything is pretty much impossible now. We'd have to change media ownership laws, campaign laws, get rid of citizens united, sick the IRS on the evangelicals who are breaking the law but keeping their tax exemptions, and fucking tell contrarian libertarian techy edgelords to stick to coding and not voting.

 

[Beebo Brink]

There is a proposal on the ballot to legalize marijuana in Florida, I will show up, vote yes on that, and walk out.

This is called the "I'm okay, so fuck all the rest of you, I don't care" approach to life.

Women don't have that luxury in this election. Neither do gay people.

 

[Dirran]

I think PMs and US Presidents are in a rather different position, since the President serves as a result of the electoral college vote, while the PM is appointed by the monarch on the basis that she or he is able to command a stable majority in Parliament.

As Liz Truss and Boris Johnson both demonstrated, as did Margaret Thatcher rather less recently, when the ruling party loses confidence in the PM for whatever reason, the PM is replaced pretty quickly.

Replacing the US President on the grounds of ill-health, at least if they don't want to be replaced, is a rather more complex process, since it involves invoking the 25th Amendment, which can be done unilaterally by the Vice President and 8 cabinet officials but, if the President doesn't want to be removed, it takes a two thirds majority in both houses to confirm the removal. Otherwise a potentially rather aggrieved President is automatically returned to office.

I don't see how such a measure would remove Donald Trump if, God forbid, things go sideways in the election or the electoral college, and I don't see it's necessary in the UK, where the last PM to serve while incapacitated was, I think, Winston Churchill during his final term in office.

Successful votes of no confidence are actually incredibly rare. Generally they do not lead to a change of government, but to an election. The last time government changed hands after a vote of no confidence without an election in Australia was 1942. That is not an effective way of dealing with a seriously incapacitated prime minister, any more than the 25th Amendment is in the US.

Obviously a system of regular medicals would take a constitutional amendment in most countries.

 

[Innula Zenovka]

Successful votes of no confidence are actually incredibly rare. Generally they do not lead to a change of government, but to an election. The last time government changed hands after a vote of no confidence without an election in Australia was 1942. That is not an effective way of dealing with a seriously incapacitated prime minister, any more than the 25th Amendment is in the US.

Obviously a system of regular medicals would take a constitutional amendment in most countries.

My point was, however, that British parliamentary parties are perfectly capable of removing their leaders, even when those leaders are the Prime Minister, without resorting to a parliamentary vote of no confidence, as the recent experience of Boris Johnson, Theresa May, and Liz Truss demonstrates, as does the less recent experience of Margaret Thatcher.

When, since the 1950s, at least, do you say regular reports on the PM's physical or mental health would have had any material impact on British politics?

 

[Dirran]

My point was, however, that British parliamentary parties are perfectly capable of removing their leaders, even when those leaders are the Prime Minister, without resorting to a parliamentary vote of no confidence, as the recent experience of Boris Johnson, Theresa May, and Liz Truss demonstrates, as does the less recent experience of Margaret Thatcher.

When, since the 1950s, at least, do you say regular reports on the PM's physical or mental health would have had any material impact on British politics?

Churchill had several strokes and was 80 when he left office. Eden was on massive doses of prescription and illegal drugs that may well have caused his incredibly bad decision making in the Suez crisis. We have no way of knowing when Thatcher's dementia set in.

 

[Aeon Jiminy]

birds of a feather

 

[Soen Eber]

This is called the "I'm okay, so fuck all the rest of you, I don't care" approach to life.

Women don't have that luxury in this election. Neither do gay people.

He might change his opinion if he ever lands a construction job in Florida over the summer.

 

[Katheryne Helendale]

birds of a feather

Not at all. The only thing this shows is that there are still some Republicans left who put country over party. But, hey, nice try.

 

[Soen Eber]

What? Is Aeon still stirring up cynicism? Most everyone here has been there, done that, and moved on to challenging ourselves to do something meaningful. Cynicism is the lazy habit of the slave - apathy, encouraged by the neo aspiring nobility who want to keep us numb and confused..

 

[Kamilah Hauptmann]

birds of a feather

Fault of person A that person B did a thing.

Abuser logic.

 

[Free]

The only thing this shows is that there are still some Republicans left who put country over party.

Unlike some people we could mention.

 

[Innula Zenovka]

Churchill had several strokes and was 80 when he left office. Eden was on massive doses of prescription and illegal drugs that may well have caused his incredibly bad decision making in the Suez crisis. We have no way of knowing when Thatcher's dementia set in.

Churchill and Eden were both PM during the 1950s, more than 70 years ago. Margaret Thatcher is commonly thought to have developed dementia in the late 1990s, though I see that Ken Clarke thinks, with hindsight, that she may have been displaying early symptoms during her last year in office -- that is, about the time her colleagues decided, without the aid of a diagnosis, that they needed to get rid of her. (Sorry about the link to the Mail).

I still don't see need, at least not in the UK.

 

[Noodles]

I try not to pay much attention to the election news. I mean are they kidding me? Harris vs. Trump? Somewhere a bunch of rich billionaires who run everything is laughing at us because we take this shit seriously like it matters who gets elected, nothing significant ever changes, the rich get richer and everyone else gets screwed. There is a proposal on the ballot to legalize marijuana in Florida, I will show up, vote yes on that, and walk out.

My thoughts on this take.

The GOP will enrich themselves and tell us to fuck off.

The DNC will enrich themselves, but at least let us have some of the scraps.

I mean yeah, they both are kind of sucky, but one is ENORMOUSLY MORE sucky.

 

[Isabeau]

Tim Walz on Instagram: "Pro-tip: don’t skip the apple cider donuts."

358K likes, 11K comments - timwalz on September 5, 2024: "Pro-tip: don’t skip the apple cider donuts.".

www.instagram.com

 

[CronoCloud Creeggan]

We have no way of knowing when Thatcher's dementia set in.

After Reagan's for sure. I personally believe that Reagan was starting to sundown a little every now and then in 87/88.

 

[Dirran]

Churchill and Eden were both PM during the 1950s, more than 70 years ago. Margaret Thatcher is commonly thought to have developed dementia in the late 1990s, though I see that Ken Clarke thinks, with hindsight, that she may have been displaying early symptoms during her last year in office -- that is, about the time her colleagues decided, without the aid of a diagnosis, that they needed to get rid of her. (Sorry about the link to the Mail).

I still don't see need, at least not in the UK.

People are living much longer. Politicians are staying in office much longer. We are going to see a lot more politicians who are suffering dementia without knowing it themselves. There are multiple examples of heads of government concealing their medical conditions from the legislature and the public. Neither parliamentary nor presidential systems of government have shown any capacity to deal with this problem.

It's not a tenable argument against fire insurance to argue that your house has not burned down yet.

 

[Free]

Republicans in congress have found the Walz scandal.

House GOP Goes Fishing With Tim Walz COVID Fraud Subpoena

Republicans are looking to question the Minnesota governor about a massive fraud scheme that took place in his state during the pandemic.

www.thedailybeast.com

 

[Free]

This is an interesting sidebar moment.

J.D. Vance's Campaign Jet Inadvertently Buzzed The Washington Monument

Washington, D.C.'s skies are some of the most heavily restricted in the world and the airspace near the White House is totally off-limits.

www.twz.com

A Boeing 737 carrying Senator J.D. Vance, former President Donald Trump’s running mate for Vice President, and others, inadvertently intruded into the heart of one of the most restricted pieces of sky on the planet earlier this week as it left Washington, D.C.’s Reagan National Airport. The jet passed over the World War II Memorial across from the Washington Monument along a route that also took it between the White House and the Lincoln Memorial, all of which is decidedly off-limits to commercial air traffic.