Social Media and the state

[Monica Dream]

Don't hyperventilate or anything.

Talk about asshole things to say.

 

[WeFlossDaily]

Talk about asshole things to say.

It's snarky but you can't personally criticize it with looking like a hypocrite.

 

[Monica Dream]

It's snarky but you can't personally criticize it with looking like a hypocrite.

Naw, I've been an asshole in this thread and I own that -but that was beyond the pale.

 

[WeFlossDaily]

Naw, I've been an asshole in this thread and I own that -but that was beyond the pale.

So now you want to take the moral high ground? Jag behöver inte prata engelska heller. Européerna'r vana vid att hantera olika språk kommer förmodligen att kunna översätta mina ord även om de snacka med mycket slang. Amerikanerna kommer att vara utlämnade till översättaren för det mesta del och kämpa för att förstå.

 

[Katheryne Helendale]

これはばかばかしいくらいだ。

 

[WeFlossDaily]

You distorted and mischaracterized what people have said to you continuously and even now continue to do so. The first part of your post ("labelling anyone you disagree with as evil") continues this pattern and for that reason I am choosing to ignore it.

Be my guest.

Likewise, I'm ignoring your armchair diagnosis; it's based on falsehood, and misrepresentation; hardly a sturdy foundation for an assessment -more like a foundation made of sand, as Our Lord Jesus Christ has said

Oh, now your trying to have a debate and back it up with bible quotes.

As far as looking like an asshole goes? I'm here to amuse myself, so I don't honestly give a shit how I look. People on this board have known me for 14 years, the ones who like me -like me; the ones who don't -never will. Both groups have seen me be a far, far bigger asshole than I've been in this thread. Nothing I post here is likely to change any opinions.

That's nice. I think this is all you've got and I don't think it amounts to shit.

 

[WeFlossDaily]

これはばかばかしいくらいだ。

Це може стати настільки дурним, наскільки це потрібно.

 

[Jopsy Pendragon]

blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blahblah blah blah blah blah blah blah blahblah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah

Am I actively doing anything to help them? No.

blah blah blah blah blah blahblah blah blah blah blah blah blah blahblah blah blah blah blah blah blah blahblah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah

I've spent years listening to feckless useless cowards who, around LGBTQ+ people -claim- to be allies and 'support the LGBTQ+', who then turn around and vote for homophobic representation, tithe at activist homophobic churches, stand by doing -nothing- when LGBTQ+ are bullied, discriminated against... etc

SAYING your 'pro' something means absolutely fucking nothing. It's an attempt to make yourself sound or look like a 'good person' without lifting a finger. You, in your own words weren't "doing anything" to help keep immigration fair, safe, supported, available... you sat on your hands. THAT'S WHAT VIRTUE SIGNALING IS.

That's not "for" something. That's effectively the same as being against something, but also too lazy to bother doing anything.

I don't care what goes on in your head. If you don't make your opinion count, it has no value. Just think about all those people you respect and connected with, and how they would feel knowing that YOU think you're 'pro-imigration' but couldn't even bother to lift a finger to vote to protect it from the vehemently racist anti-immigration party that's spreading through our government like a cancer.

Because of people like you... who -think- their opinions matter, but refuse to stand up and actually, you know.... DO ANYTHING to support them.

If you want to have an opinion that matters to anyone but yourself.... Voting is the barest minimum.

 

[GoblinCampFollower]

Please, enlighten us all with examples of hatred pushed by each side. For comparisons.

Be specific.

It's been quoted here before a few times, but that one twitter post comes to mind:

C: I'm being discriminated for my conservative views!

You're being discriminated against for wanting lower taxes?

C: Oh no, not those views.

For deregulation?

C: Oh no, not those views either.

What views are you talking about?

C: Oh you know... the ones!


When right wingers claim they are getting hate from the left it's usually one of 2 things:

1) They said something bigoted but want to deflect blame to the people calling them out on it.

2) They engaged with some tankies and want to use them as representative of everyone left of center. Tankies actually are VERY quick to death threats over tiny things but their numbers are actually trivial as a voting block.

 

[WeFlossDaily]

I've spent years listening to feckless useless cowards who, around LGBTQ+ people -claim- to be allies and 'support the LGBTQ+', who then turn around and vote for homophobic representation, tithe at activist homophobic churches, stand by doing -nothing- when LGBTQ+ are bullied, discriminated against... etc

This would be a strawman argument, as I haven't claimed to be their advocate and then turned around and voted against them. I feel sympathy towards people who are discriminated against and don't like to see other people getting picked on. You can't criticize me for not voting and then try to lump me in with the people who did. Pick one or the other. You can have your cake. Or you can eat it. Both you can't do both.

SAYING your 'pro' something means absolutely fucking nothing. It's an attempt to make yourself sound or look like a 'good person' without lifting a finger. You, in your own words weren't "doing anything" to help keep immigration fair, safe, supported, available... you sat on your hands. THAT'S WHAT VIRTUE SIGNALING IS.

It was really more of an attempt to show you or whoever that I'm not aligned with the conservative viewpoint, as many of you have mistaken non-complete alignment with your own viewpoint as evidence of alignment with your enemy. Yes, it was virtual signaling. But I am quite sincere about what I said, not that it is likely to matter to you. Another way of putting this would be to say that you are attempting force me into a box where everything is black and white. Sometimes stuff is that simple. Sometimes it is a shade of gray. People can be like that. Are you doing something that helps immigrants that is so important and special that it gives you right to condemn or judge me? I told you that I like working with them and try to be a welcoming member of my society to them and told you of my experience and how it has impacted me. If you are too stupid to understand that I have offered you middle ground in which we can agree on something and possibly view each other as human, well them I don't really know what to tell you. I don't jump through hoops, lay down, or play dead just because that's what you want me to do. I am who I am. Take it or leave it. Makes no difference to me.

That's not "for" something. That's effectively the same as being against something, but also too lazy to bother doing anything.

This is starting to turn into gaslighting.

1.) I do not argue about the meanings of words with other people.

2.) You are attempting to move the goal-posts and change the definitions of words to suite the purpose of your personal attack on me. It's a personal attack because we aren't really talking about the issue. It starts with you wanting to prove that I am wrong because I am bad because I don't share your viewpoint. I tell you that I am for immigration and now you want to discuss what being 'for' or not being 'for' something means. I'm sorry you can't accept that I share you viewpoint on something. Oh. well.

I don't care what goes on in your head.

You certainly have made an incredible effort to shape reality into something that de-legitimizes anything I say. And you've spent quite a bit of effort at this point trying to tell me what I think or what I am allow to think. In fact, you've been a very judgemental prick about it.

If you don't make your opinion count, it has no value.

This is self-absorbed and self righteous bullshit. In-action is a choice. In this case, it is a choice you cannot understand or contemplate, but which you think entitles you to sit in narcissistic judgement and tell me shit.

Just think about all those people you respect and connected with, and how they would feel knowing that YOU think you're 'pro-imigration' but couldn't even bother to lift a finger to vote to protect it from the vehemently racist anti-immigration party that's spreading through our government like a cancer.

I know quite a few legal immigrants who voted for Trump the first time around. Yes, some of the immigrants actively voted against other immigrants. The immigration issues is is extremely complicated and personal for a lot of people. A lot of them can't vote, though. Obviously. And a lot of them vote liberal in hopes of reform. But not all of them do. People may voice their opinion and they may have whatever opinion they want. People should also largely be able to do this without being subjected your style of inquisition. Your being an asshole and at this point and you really need to just shut the fuck up about it.

Because of people like you

No. The problem is not people like me you Nazi-minded, extremist fuck. Do you understand the parallel between what you are saying and what others in the past have said? Evidently not. Or you would not be continually trying to beat me over the head with your viewpoint. You would understand how to have a civil discussion about it without alienating yourself in a way that causes the other person to put up their guard and get ready to throw fire on you. Quit trying to scapegoat onto me. Because of people like me? Hej, fuck you. This kind of extremist scapegoating is the kind of shit happening on both sides and is one of the driving reasons I despise both side of the system. It is fuckery absolute that will not be tolerated. The Nazis blamed the Jews the way that you are blaming me. Perhaps it's time somebody shoved your own brand of bullshit right down your fucking throat. You embody what you claim to hate and are too stupid to realize it.

 

[Innula Zenovka]

Michael Savage (@michaelsavage.bsky.social)

NEW: With big tech bending the knee & the UK government taking the pragmatic option, Sadiq Khan makes the big argument - the West faces a far-right threat and needs to stand up. Also wants more action on online hate beyond the Online Safety Act. Story...

bsky.app

The Mayor of London calls for tighter controls on social media as part of international fight against fascism:

The west must face up to a century-defining battle against a resurgent far right that is on the march across the developed world, Sadiq Khan warns today, as he calls on ministers to take on extremism ahead of Donald Trump’s second inauguration as US president.

In the most strident rallying call of any senior British politician against the march of the right in the US, France and Germany, the London mayor warns of a “resurgent fascism” online and says that stricter laws on harmful content will be needed to stem the tide.

Khan calls on ministers to “ratchet up” pressure on social media companies to tackle hate and misinformation, blaming Musk for reinstating the accounts of far-right figures, including Tommy Robinson.

“A billionaire bully shouldn’t be able to use his social media platform as a propaganda tool to amplify lies and advance the cause of the far right,” he states. “Nor should social media companies be able to evade responsibility for algorithms that maximise – and monetise – hate.”

Ministers are said to be looking closely at Meta’s recent announcement that it was ending fact checking and reducing restrictions on topics such as immigration and gender on its platforms including Facebook, Instagram and Threads.

Also

Nigel Farage, Kemi Badenoch and the Human Cost of 'Free' Speech

It's time for politicians and the media to take responsibility for the consequences of their dehumanising language about those seeking refuge in the UK

www.adambienkov.co.uk

Evernote Link

 

[WeFlossDaily]

The west must face up to a century-defining battle against a resurgent far right that is on the march across the developed world, Sadiq Khan warns today, as he calls on ministers to take on extremism ahead of Donald Trump’s second inauguration as US president.

There is no such thing as the far right or the far left. Constantly trying to prefix left and right with the word far in front of it is an extremely lame attempt to try to make whatever you are talking about sound more problematic than it actually is. It's typically a sign that you are reading media devoted to one side or the other, it's non-objective, arguably anti-journalism, dishonest, and a clear gaslight.

Trump doesn't qualify as an extremist anymore than Biden or Harris or Zenlenskyy or Macron or Olaf. He's just not your preferred candidate, so of course it's the end of the world. Also Trump and the Americans are not responsible for the problems in Britain. The internet is not even responsible for the problems in Britain. British people alone are responsible for their own unrest and problematic behavior. Overly censoring the internet and going on an anti-American media campaign is not going to stop the russian propaganda machine. It's just going to piss off Americans and proponents of free speech who believe free speech is absolutely essential to living in a free society.

In the most strident rallying call of any senior British politician against the march of the right in the US, France and Germany, the London mayor warns of a “resurgent fascism” online and says that stricter laws on harmful content will be needed to stem the tide.

The British government is still scapegoating. Rioting in France is a national pastime and hardly cause for concern. Germany is about a far from fascism as it can possibly be. In fact, they're so scared of being called Nazi's they've completely failed to react to russian acts of sabotage and hybrid warfare being conducted against their infrastructure, although they are supplying more aid to Ukraine then most of the other European countries, they are dead last when it comes to providing the heavy weapons and lethal aid that Ukraine desperately needs.

Speaking of Ukraine, the Ukrainians did block Telegram on state issued devices. However, despite being created by russian, one of which was arrested in France, a lot of people view Telegram as an important way to circumvent state-sponsored propaganda. It played a crucial role in helping Ukrainians stay in contact with each other and keep up with what was happening when everything was in flux. Nobody want's to evacuate a town only to end up trapped in another town controlled by the invaders. Telegram was important.

However, a lot countries have governments with fear Telegram, because theirs nothing they can do to control it. Telegram was even banned in russia at one point because the CEO or whatever refused to cooperate with the kremlin, although I believe this as changed. Still it doesn't matter, the British wouldn't be able to just bully Twitter into doing what they want and calling it a day. Bluesky lacks the ability to effectively moderate itself and Telegram is beyond the reach of the British. Yes, they could block them. And then block Tic-tok and then they could go after YouTube channels and attempt to silence those also. Eventually, they will end up having to jail their own reporters and citizens for criticizing simple government actions. The russians do protested the war with blank pieces of paper were savagely beaten and arrested. Is this what the British government is willing to become because they hate Trump that much? Keep in mind they still have to deal with him at some point and the man is the apotheosis of motherfucker. It's easy to criticize a country that begins cracking down on free speech and it should always be done. The Georgian Dream party is doing a similar crackdown on the population of Georgia after a sketchy election that has lead to mass protests. Rioting and civil unrest are the ultimate acts of democracy. In spite of the foreign agent laws and the harsh consequences, the tear gas, and the beating, the Georgian people took to the streets in mass to have their say. Deny people their voice and eventually they will start throwing molotovs, bricks, and rocks, and engage with fighting the police and setting things on fire . . .

 

[WeFlossDaily]

. . . Abkhazia has also succeeded from russia without a military response and will likely rejoin Georgia. I believe the russian sanctioned sales on oranges or something in response. A very huffy and puffy type of thing.

Khan calls on ministers to “ratchet up” pressure on social media companies to tackle hate and misinformation, blaming Musk for reinstating the accounts of far-right figures, including Tommy Robinson.

“A billionaire bully shouldn’t be able to use his social media platform as a propaganda tool to amplify lies and advance the cause of the far right,” he states. “Nor should social media companies be able to evade responsibility for algorithms that maximise – and monetise – hate.”

Ministers are said to be looking closely at Meta’s recent announcement that it was ending fact checking and reducing restrictions on topics such as immigration and gender on its platforms including Facebook, Instagram and Threads.

Nobody cared when Elon Musk was a democrat. But the biggest problem isn't even if it's misinformation or not. The problem is that anything that doesn't line up with your political party will be treated as misinformation. Have a different opinion. Congratulations, you are not guilty of spreading misinformation and will be sentenced to British jail. I believe in russia you get five years for spreading false information about the special military operation in Ukraine. Basically, say anything the russian government dislikes and you are going to prison for five years, even holding up a blank piece of paper is enough to incite this. The British are following in the path of the russians. It's pretty telling that the British aren't talking about countering propaganda but are instead focusing on countering their opposition party under the pretense that it is all misinformation. Actually, you don't even have to do much to counter russian propaganda related to Ukraine, just keeping broadcasting the footage coming out of Ukraine. The problem comes when increasingly fascist governments, like the British, fail to take responsibility for the problems in their country and try to offload it onto their political opponents. The fact that the British are a bunch of monolingual tea-drinkers that don't understand diversity for shit doesn't help. That's what the russians are exploiting. It has to be countered at the source, intercepting the inbetween----or the middle men----isn't going to solve the problem and will likely make things worse.

The cost of free speech is not as great as the cost of censoring it. This is bias and non-objective fear-mongering by the British in order to strip the rights of their citizens by scapegoating and blaming everything on the results of the American election.

Obviously, these are not forms which advocate for free speech, despite the moderation here appears to be very forgiving.

Your right to free speech stops when it encourages harm to others, incites hatred, or calls for violence. At that point it enters into the realms of being criminal and can be handled by lustration laws. Discrimination is not allowed under free speech. Not because of laws, though. Because, for the most part, most of us do not tolerate it and will ruthlessly stomp it out when we encounter it.

Serious question: Are the British planning to prosecute their on citizens who violate these laws? If the write these kind of laws than they will be required to. The laws would not merely be able to be applied to Twitter.

Censoring the opposition party of an allied country is a violation of free speech. The only regimes which require lustrastion laws to pervent a resurgence are the nazis and the soviets. Flag a nazi flag and Germany and you have committed a hate crime and you will be arrested. Ironically, they have poor laws in reguard to their russian-German citizens celebrating victory day.

SImilar laws exist through the former soviet-controlled communist states to pervent the horros of communisiom from ever rearing their ugly heads igen. In spite of this, belrus has become a puppet state and will likely be absorbed into russia without a shot being fired. Ukraine and Gerogia have struggled and are still struggling to free themselves from the influence of the soviet empire.

Yes, there are times when free speech must be limited.

But limiting the speech of an allied nation's political party because it is in opposition to your own? This is an unfreindly action the the part of the British and it will be seen by way in the lower 48 in a hostile light. Americans and the Brtiish and the Candians already have enough shit between them to fight over and I promise you this isn't going to help.

And no, I'm not pro-Trump.

That motherfucker said he could end the war in Ukraine in 24 hours. Seeing is believing. Fuck you, show me, motherfucker.

I want this war to end. I want russia to be destoryed and disolved and shattered into a fragmentation of differenet states.

This British bullshit is going to get in the way of helping Ukraine.

It's already in the way.

And it the Americans stop supporting Ukraine (I hope they increse their support) then free speech throughout Europe is going to be an esstial means to raise support and force the governments of Europe to take direct action against russia in support of Ukraine.

This war is bigger then Ukraine. Free speech must be defended. Without free speech, you have no voice. Voting by itself by and large doesn't matter. The fact that at any moment a large portion of the population of a major city can march and riot against the government it what keeps most Western governments honest and acting correctly. Or, it sounds nasty, but the threat of violence keeps a lot of shit in line, much, much more than alot of people want to believe. For example, you are only 3 days or 9 meals from taking to the streets and rioting over food at any given moment no matter how stable or how safe you think you are, unless of course your

 

[WeFlossDaily]

I view a threat against free speech as a threat against Ukraine. I guess that would be the ultra-simplified TLDR.

 

[Jopsy Pendragon]

This would be a strawman argument, as I haven't claimed to be their advocate and then turned around and voted against them. I feel sympathy towards people who are discriminated against and don't like to see other people getting picked on. You can't criticize me for not voting and then try to lump me in with the people who did. Pick one or the other. You can have your cake. Or you can eat it. Both you can't do both.

It was really more of an attempt to show you or whoever that I'm not aligned with the conservative viewpoint, as many of you have mistaken non-complete alignment with your own viewpoint as evidence of alignment with your enemy. Yes, it was virtual signaling. But I am quite sincere about what I said, not that it is likely to matter to you. Another way of putting this would be to say that you are attempting force me into a box where everything is black and white. Sometimes stuff is that simple. Sometimes it is a shade of gray. People can be like that. Are you doing something that helps immigrants that is so important and special that it gives you right to condemn or judge me? I told you that I like working with them and try to be a welcoming member of my society to them and told you of my experience and how it has impacted me. If you are too stupid to understand that I have offered you middle ground in which we can agree on something and possibly view each other as human, well them I don't really know what to tell you. I don't jump through hoops, lay down, or play dead just because that's what you want me to do. I am who I am. Take it or leave it. Makes no difference to me.

This is starting to turn into gaslighting.

1.) I do not argue about the meanings of words with other people.

2.) You are attempting to move the goal-posts and change the definitions of words to suite the purpose of your personal attack on me. It's a personal attack because we aren't really talking about the issue. It starts with you wanting to prove that I am wrong because I am bad because I don't share your viewpoint. I tell you that I am for immigration and now you want to discuss what being 'for' or not being 'for' something means. I'm sorry you can't accept that I share you viewpoint on something. Oh. well.

You certainly have made an incredible effort to shape reality into something that de-legitimizes anything I say. And you've spent quite a bit of effort at this point trying to tell me what I think or what I am allow to think. In fact, you've been a very judgemental prick about it.

This is self-absorbed and self righteous bullshit. In-action is a choice. In this case, it is a choice you cannot understand or contemplate, but which you think entitles you to sit in narcissistic judgement and tell me shit.

I know quite a few legal immigrants who voted for Trump the first time around. Yes, some of the immigrants actively voted against other immigrants. The immigration issues is is extremely complicated and personal for a lot of people. A lot of them can't vote, though. Obviously. And a lot of them vote liberal in hopes of reform. But not all of them do. People may voice their opinion and they may have whatever opinion they want. People should also largely be able to do this without being subjected your style of inquisition. Your being an asshole and at this point and you really need to just shut the fuck up about it.


No. The problem is not people like me you Nazi-minded, extremist fuck. Do you understand the parallel between what you are saying and what others in the past have said? Evidently not. Or you would not be continually trying to beat me over the head with your viewpoint. You would understand how to have a civil discussion about it without alienating yourself in a way that causes the other person to put up their guard and get ready to throw fire on you. Quit trying to scapegoat onto me. Because of people like me? Hej, fuck you. This kind of extremist scapegoating is the kind of shit happening on both sides and is one of the driving reasons I despise both side of the system. It is fuckery absolute that will not be tolerated. The Nazis blamed the Jews the way that you are blaming me. Perhaps it's time somebody shoved your own brand of bullshit right down your fucking throat. You embody what you claim to hate and are too stupid to realize it.

Blah blah flucking blah blah blah blah blah.
I'm not reading all through that mess.



“Let not any one pacify his conscience by the delusion that he can do no harm if he takes no part, and forms no opinion. Bad men need nothing more to compass their ends, than that good men should look on and do nothing. He is not a good man who, without a protest, allows wrong to be committed in his name, and with the means which he helps to supply, because he will not trouble himself to use his mind on the subject.” -- John Stuart Mill


Let me be clear, you said you didn't vote. You are complicit with what's about to happen in this country because you abstained when you should have stood up for what you believe in, even if it meant holding your nose and voting for the lesser of what you perceive as two evils.

You are as much a part of the problem as anyone else that voted for Trump. Nothing you say can or will change my mind on that. Make an effort next time, and until then just STFU about it.

Nobody cares WHY you didn't vote or what you might have voted for if you did.... only that you didn't.

 

[Soen Eber]

There is no such thing as the far right or the far left. Constantly trying to prefix left and right with the word far in front of it is an extremely lame attempt to try to make whatever you are talking about sound more problematic than it actually is

You lost me here. Ukraine will probably lose most of its' U.S. support because of Trump and his far right pals. House majority leader Johnson, who blocked and delayed military aid to Ukraine for several months has just appointed a Ukraine aid critic to the House Intelligence panel. Johnson has close and multiple ties to the Christian Nationist far right, such as the New Apostolic Reformation (NAR) movement.

 

[WeFlossDaily]

I'm not reading all through that mess.

Failure to read an opposing viewpoint, makes it impossible to conduct an effective debate or counterpoint.

You limit yourself to talking at me.

You're still complaining about me not voting because you refuse to understand.

But I'm inclined to agree with your quote, though I prefer this quote to yours:

In your silence, you agree.

In this case, the case of voting for a federal election. I am silent because I believe both sides in America agree wrong and going about doing things the wrong way. It is not my civic responsibility to vote for which ever candidate I think is the least evil if I don't want to and nobody can make me and I will not vote for one candidate because they are not the other. In this instance it equates to accepting the outcome of the masses. I can't complain about Trump. Because I didn't bother to oppose him. I didn't feel like my voice would make a difference, and despite all your bitching, it would not have. I don't think the American system of government changes much regardless of the outcome. The same rotten system will remain, governmental officials at all levels in every state will continue to enrich themselves and continue to blame the other side for their shortcomings. I'm done listening to whine about my decisions, though. It's doesn't even amount to a straw-man argument, now you're just bitching to bitch. Bitch-made motherfuckers tend to do that.

Now, this thread was started as a hostile attack against free speech, although there was a war to be fought.

If it has to be fought out like a war. Then so be it.

 

[WeFlossDaily]

You lost me here.

Your doing better then most of the others.

Ukraine will probably lose most of its' U.S. support because of Trump and his far right pals.

There's nothing I can do about that. My vote wouldn't have made a realistic difference. And the current administration is not doing enough for Ukraine to win. Ukraine is fucked either way if something doesn't change for the better. Do you want to know what the problem with the American tanks was? Only about 30 of them were send. Then the American media put a huge amount of political pressure on the Ukrainians to succeed in the counter-offensive. When the russians destroyed the Nova Kakhovka damn and flooded Kherson they reshaped the battlefield and delayed the counter offensive and forced the Ukrainians to choose between a more narrow set of attack vectors. Because American and European aid in the form of heavy weapons----tanks in this case----was so slow to arrive, the russians had plenty of time to build up the defensive lines in Zaporizhia Oblast. And when the tanks arrived, there weren't enough. The amount of political pressure put on the AFU wasn't fair. They were forced to attack toward Robotyne without air superiority, which is something NATO doctrine pretty much forbids. So they were up against tanks, dragon's teeth, trenches, suhois, hellacopters, and a whole mess of shit. The whole monster was waiting for them like some kind of demented final boss. America only gave them 30 tanks. German mabey another 30. The British, I forget, but not enough.

The Ukrainians could not afford to concentrate these tanks in groups and plow through the trenches. This is called a thunder run. You plow through the enemy's trench line with a pile of tanks and attack from the front using artillery, BMPs, and infantry. This creates chaos. It's a complicated combined arms type of thing to do. But the Ukrainians couldn't risk the polical consequences of losing 10 or 15 tanks in a day, even it it meant there was a snowball's chance in hell that they could cut the rail line in Melitolpol, reach the Sea of Azov and split the russian army in to, trapping the southern most forces in Zaporizhia with only Crimea to retreat to. Instead the Ukraines were forced to just plow into the the russian defenses the best they could and hope they could break them without ever contrating the powerful tanks they were given.

This lead to increabily high looses. The American, the russians, the British, and the Germans pretty much all declared the counter offensive a failure and began speculating on if Ukraine could win through a Military victory or if it was time to cut off the aid and quit wasting money.

The offensive wasn't a failure, though. It was doomed to fail in it's goal, though. The Sea of Azov remained out of reach and many Ukrainian soilders got hurt and died. Instead of completely giving up, Zaluzhnyi, the gernal who was in charege at the time (he is also the military leader credited with saving Kyiv, which has 5 million people in it) decided to shift gears. Instead of trying to take ground and just wanted to kill russians. Play the game Syrskyi played in Bakmut (Syrski has succeeded Zaluzhnyi as the current general. Zaluzhnyi is currently serving as the ambassador to Britian). Basically, the Ukrainians took reclaimed anything the could, evacuated civillians trapped in the fighting that the russians didn't care about, and ran the meat grinder as hard as they could.

But the Western media did not credit Ukraine with hurting russia. They said Ukraine had failed. Ukraine ran russia down for months playing this game in the south, destroyed billions of USD worth of russian airdefenses, continued burning oil refineriers to the ground, and dominated the russians in the black sea despite not really having jack in terms of a Navy.

The Americans and the British, both of which should be far more obligated to support Ukraine in accordance with the Budpest Memorum, completely and utterly failed Ukraine. The rest of Europe did not do enough.

But the Americans didn't give them enough and pushed them into a corner.

Ukrainian soilders died.

Yes, the general managed to pivot in time to prevent a total disaster, but he was still dismissed as a failure and replaced.

I blame the bullshit politics in America for that failed offensive.

This was the doing of Biden's people. How could Trump do any worse?

House majority leader Johnson, another member of the far has just appointed a Ukraine aid critic to the House Intelligence panel.

I'm oddly comfortable with that. He delayed aid at one point because he wanted a LNG export terminal approved federally to open in his district that the federal government was stalling on. A bullshit game, ya. But he did ultimately hold the vote needed to send Ukraine something to the tune of 60 Billion dollars. Most of the Trump people were furious with this. Some have changed their tune. Some believe Ukraine matters a great deal and must be helped. Johnson would not be the absolute worst person to head such a committe. And the Ukrainian government still suffers from internal coruption. Internal coruption is there biggest threat. The mil-boggers and the politicans don't back down from telling the truth about it.

Sorry for being long winded. This is one on many criticisims I harbor against how the American government has handled supporting Ukraine.

 

[Monica Dream]

This was the doing of Biden's people. How could Trump do any worse?

He's your guy, so wait and see. Here's a hint though; he and Putin are good buddies going way back.

I was wrong when I said you're an idiot; I should have prefixed it with "long-winded", meaning tedious.

 

[WeFlossDaily]

Johnson has close and multiple ties to the Christian Nationist far right, such as the New Apostolic Reformation (NAR) movement.

I closed out and forgot about this part. I don't believe in the far right or far left. I believe there are two parties that exist on the right and left.

The Ukrainians are Christians. Maybe that will help. They're orthodox Christians I believe, but perhaps the insane religious element of the right can be convinced by the people in the part of already believe it matters that that is a good enough reason to continue helping Ukraine.

Idk what the NAR is.

The Ukrainians also don't care if the Americans only help them to get land leases or mineral deals. I've heard this for several mil-bloggers. They don't give a dman about why the Americans want to help, they just desperately need the help.

Without free speech at the international level, though. Ukraine would have been steamrolled. The American javelins gifted to them right before the russians invaded played a huge roll in the early days of the war when the russians were advancing without infantry to guard their tanks

I'm sure you remember what Zelenskyy said on Twitter. It made a gigantic difference. The Americans took notice.

I took notice.

Cause it's like who is this short man with the big balls and what did he just say.

I could take the futhur and turn this into a video easy and show a bunch of stuff that it is incredibly important not to block in terms of free speech, cause if you censor Twitter, then what about Youtube, and what about the war content that has actually been allowed?