WTF Sh*t's F*cked Up and Bullsh*t - a "Who Cares" thread for news

[Katheryne Helendale]

Uhm, WHAT?

Prosecutors say 2 Texas men made plans to take over a Haitian island

Federal prosecutors say two Texas men were making plans to take over a Haitian island, kill all of the men and then use the women and children for sex

abcnews.go.com

I'm going to take a wild guess that they are Trumpers.

 

[Dakota Tebaldi]

An indictment filed in a Texas federal court accuses the men of planning to recruit the homeless to join their coup in Haiti, buy a sailboat and seize power on Gonave Island, which has about 87,000 residents.

lol yeah okay, I'm gonna call BS on this one. The prosecutors are gonna have to have some amazing evidence if they're gonna convince anyone these guys were ever seriously planning to kill tens of thousands of people.

 

[Free]

lol yeah okay, I'm gonna call BS on this one. The prosecutors are gonna have to have some amazing evidence if they're gonna convince anyone these guys were ever seriously planning to kill tens of thousands of people.

The evidence:

 

[CronoCloud Creeggan]

The evidence:

Were they doing drugs? If so, those must have been some good drugs.

 

[Casey Pelous]

lol yeah okay, I'm gonna call BS on this one. The prosecutors are gonna have to have some amazing evidence if they're gonna convince anyone these guys were ever seriously planning to kill tens of thousands of people.

They do not seem to be among the sharpest knives in the ol' knife rack.

Weisenburg allegedly enrolled in a fire academy around Dallas to receive training that would be useful in the attack but failed out of the school. He then allegedly traveled to Thailand and planned to learn to sail, only to never end up enrolling in lessons because of the cost.

This, however ....

... They were also charged with production of child pornography over allegations they persuaded a minor to engage in sexually explicit conduct.

 

[Dakota Tebaldi]

Well that last part should get them in jail, so maybe the conspiracy charge is moot. It just seems so unserious, lol.

Like, suppose I said in chat that I'm an evil genius and I wanted to take over the world by inventing a chemical bomb that either turns everyone into my devoted slaves or kills them if they can't be converted, and then I go sign up for a community college chemistry course and flunk out of it, is that really enough evidence to arrest me for attempted murder???

 

[Free]

Like, suppose I said in chat that I'm an evil genius and I wanted to take over the world by inventing a chemical bomb that either turns everyone into my devoted slaves or kills them if they can't be converted

...

...

...

...Have you said that in chat?

 

[Dakota Tebaldi]

On the advice of my attorney, I'm not going to answer that.

 

[Soen Eber]

...

...

...

...Have you said that in chat?

I could easily imagine certain tech billionaires saying that in their college days. Proof of evil. And why doesn't Musk have a volcanic lair yet?

 

[Erich Templar]

And why doesn't Musk have a volcanic lair yet?

How do you know he doesn't?

 

[Innula Zenovka]

Well that last part should get them in jail, so maybe the conspiracy charge is moot. It just seems so unserious, lol.

Like, suppose I said in chat that I'm an evil genius and I wanted to take over the world by inventing a chemical bomb that either turns everyone into my devoted slaves or kills them if they can't be converted, and then I go sign up for a community college chemistry course and flunk out of it, is that really enough evidence to arrest me for attempted murder???

We don't know what the evidence against the two men is, but the bar to conviction for conspiracy in Texas seems to be pretty low

https://www.triticolaw.com/blog/2023/06/the-elements-of-the-crime-of-conspiracy

If that's correct, the prosecution needs to prove three elements beyond reasonable doubt

• Agreement (mutual agreement to commit a crime)
• Intent (intent to commit the crime)
• Overt act towards committing the crime (can be something as simple as purchasing supplies)

Your example clearly doesn't meet those criteria, but I can just about see how, depending on the evidence, a jury might be persuaded the pair are guilty, even though their plan was clearly pretty fanciful.

I've often wondered, as a general point, how practicable a plan has to be in order for it to become a criminal act.

For example, if someone tries to kill their victim by adding what they believe is arsenic to the victim's coffee, then that's attempted murder even though the substance they add is, in fact, harmless (they bought what they thought was arsenic from an undercover police officer who supplied them with sugar, maybe).

Where, though, does this leave someone who sincerely believes in traditional African religions or vodoun who makes what they believe is a serious attempt to kill someone by paying a sorcerer to place a curse on them?

Most of us wouldn't believe that the curse could have any effect (and if the victim did, in fact, die, we'd dismiss the curse as purely coincidental) but would not the defendant and the sorcerer nevertheless be guilty of attempted murder, if they both intended the curse to kill the victim and believed it would?

 

[Katheryne Helendale]

I guess it would have to come down to the prosecution being able to prove beyond reasonable doubt that the defendants actually believed it would work.

 

[Innula Zenovka]

I guess it would have to come down to the prosecution being able to prove beyond reasonable doubt that the defendants actually believed it would work.

I think the point to prove would probably be intent rather than belief. Similarly, you would need to prove a would-be assassin intended to shoot their victim (aimed the gun at them) rather than that they believed they'd make the shot.

 

[Zaida Gearbox]

Were they doing drugs? If so, those must have been some good drugs.

I read the island they wanted to invade was Haiti? Part of me thinks we should let them try - FAFO. Haitians ain't no joke. That or turn them over to a voodoo practitioner.

 

[Katheryne Helendale]

I think the point to prove would probably be intent rather than belief. Similarly, you would need to prove a would-be assassin intended to shoot their victim (aimed the gun at them) rather than that they believed they'd make the shot.

Well, yes, that too. I believe both elements would be needed. If I went to the cops stating I intended to kill someone by crushing them with the moon, I may, at worst, be 5150'd, but not likely to face criminal prosecution unless they could prove I fully believed I could do it.

 

[Innula Zenovka]

Well, yes, that too. I believe both elements would be needed. If I went to the cops stating I intended to kill someone by crushing them with the moon, I may, at worst, be 5150'd, but not likely to face criminal prosecution unless they could prove I fully believed I could do it.

What would be the likely outcome if you told the police you intended to buy a gun and shoot one of your neighbours who annoys you? You'd doubtless have your house searched and possibly be detained for psychiatric examination, but what charges other than wasting police time might you face unless you actually tried to shoot someone?

I agree that the District Attorney probably wouldn't want to waste the court's time by prosecuting people for attempting to kill their neighbours by putting curses on them (and would want to avoid publicity about trying people for witchcraft) but I've always thought that, at least under the definition of attempted murder in English law, it's probably illegal.

 

[Katheryne Helendale]

What would be the likely outcome if you told the police you intended to buy a gun and shoot one of your neighbours who annoys you? You'd doubtless have your house searched and possibly be detained for psychiatric examination, but what charges other than wasting police time might you face unless you actually tried to shoot someone?

I'm actually not sure what would happen. Like you stated, you'd be investigated to determine if you had the means to carry out the threat. In some jurisdictions, you may be charged with communicating a threat against someone. But I'm not entirely sure.

 

[Innula Zenovka]

She turned in a Bible sermon instead of an essay and failed. Now conservatives say she’s the victim.

Samantha Fulnecky’s Bible-filled essay earned her a failing grade. After whining to Republican leaders, the University of Oklahoma is caving to her demands.

www.friendlyatheist.com

 

[Veritable Quandry]

I have students take positions in papers that I personally disagree with. But if they have citations to relevant research, they get good grades. Students like the one in the article want to be victims so they can get out of learning and doing the work.

You would think that conservative students would want to learn to defend their views. That is supposed to be what Charlie Kirk stood for. But like Kirk, they want to win by ignoring the rules and spouting empty rhetoric from memes instead of even quoting their own scripture or the fair number of right-wing think tanks that spew out articles that are at a distance at least sciencey sounding. They attack "our feels" but all they can cite are their feels.

This student didn't even turn in a Bible sermon, as they didn't even cite specific scripture. And the rubric would have allowed them to cite Bible verses as long as they tied them to specific points in the article they were assigned to read.

 

[Innula Zenovka]

I have students take positions in papers that I personally disagree with. But if they have citations to relevant research, they get good grades. Students like the one in the article want to be victims so they can get out of learning and doing the work.

You would think that conservative students would want to learn to defend their views. That is supposed to be what Charlie Kirk stood for. But like Kirk, they want to win by ignoring the rules and spouting empty rhetoric from memes instead of even quoting their own scripture or the fair number of right-wing think tanks that spew out articles that are at a distance at least sciencey sounding. They attack "our feels" but all they can cite are their feels.

This student didn't even turn in a Bible sermon, as they didn't even cite specific scripture. And the rubric would have allowed them to cite Bible verses as long as they tied them to specific points in the article they were assigned to read.

Another take on the same incident

TPUSA Silences Another Trans Person

Trans people's free speech is under attack.

www.everythingishorrible.net