Pope Francis died at age 88

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As an aside, I can give a recommendation for the recent film Conclave with Ralph Fiennes. It's possibly more thiller-ific than what is actually going down at the Vatican right now, but then again...

You can find it on the various streaming services i.e. Amazon, Apple TV, Youtube, etc. (Word is it'll be in Amazon Prime's video catalog tomorrow at no additional cost. We shall see... update: it's now free to watch for Amazon Prime users.)
 
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Emperor Nero the Golf Cheat has ordered flags down at half mast for the Pope. I'm kinda annoyed at this.

While there is precedence, the only Pope this was done for was JPII. It's exceptionally rare that flags are lowered for foreign leaders. This, as near as I can tell, is the sixth time it's happened.

It seems like a cheap and pandering act more than a respectful one.
 

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You knew this one was coming, right? Trump ordered all flags on to be on half-staff until sunset to honor the death of Pope Francis.

It sounds to me like a desperate attempt to cuddle with more right wing nuts...

 

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The church is clearly an anachronism from a bygone era. ...though it can only update so much before it ceases to be Catholic. I think the Catholic church will continue to decline, just slowly.
Only... the catholic church isn't declining at all.
In Europe religion goes down hill fast. In North America slowly, but in the rest of the world the catholic church is growing.

Even in The Netherlands where a majority of people considers themselves not religious, the numbers stabilize since corona.
 

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You knew this one was coming, right? Trump ordered all flags on to be on half-staff until sunset to honor the death of Pope Francis.

It sounds to me like a desperate attempt to cuddle with more right wing nuts...

Vance should visit his president more often in the Oval Office.
 

Sid

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Given the way societies around the world have been sliding farther to the right lately, I fear your worry isn't unfounded. But I still hold hope that whoever replaces him will continue nudging the Church leftward, even if ever so slightly. Maybe that would help temper the conservative slide we've been seeing around the world.
Francis appointed the majority of cardinals that have voting rights at the moment himself.
It all depends if they will be united around one candidate or not.

But: Being in the progressive group of cardinals doesn't mean that they are progressive like we think progressives are in politics.
People who are really progressive in the catolic church almost never come even close to the ranks of bishops and certainly not to the rank of cardinals.
Francis was as progressive as it ever will get IMHO.
 
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But: Being in the progressive group of cardinals doesn't mean that they are progressive like we think progressives are in politics.
Oh, lord no! Nobody could ever accuse the Catholic Church of being progressive. But still, even a journey of a thousand miles begins with the first step, and Pope Francis had arguably taken that first step.
 
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Sid

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As an aside, I can give a recommendation for the recent film Conclave with Ralph Fiennes. It's possibly more thiller-ific than what is actually going down at the Vatican right now, but then again...

You can find it on the various streaming services i.e. Amazon, Apple TV, Youtube, etc. (Word is it'll be in Amazon Prime's video catalog tomorrow at no additional cost. We shall see... update: it's now free to watch for Amazon Prime users.)
Vatican watchers recognize certain RL cardinals clearly in the film characters.
Of course a bit over dramatized for the movies.
 
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Only... the catholic church isn't declining at all.
In Europe religion goes down hill fast. In North America slowly, but in the rest of the world the catholic church is growing.

Even in The Netherlands where a majority of people considers themselves not religious, the numbers stabilize since corona.
I stand corrected... I didn't realize they were still growing SO FAST in Africa in particular. That seems to still have a lot of growth potential even. Though stated membership is often exaggerated due to how often members lose interest... but still, I think you're right that in total they are growing even as overall religiousness is not.

Emperor Nero the Golf Cheat has ordered flags down at half mast for the Pope. I'm kinda annoyed at this.

While there is precedence, the only Pope this was done for was JPII. It's exceptionally rare that flags are lowered for foreign leaders. This, as near as I can tell, is the sixth time it's happened.

It seems like a cheap and pandering act more than a respectful one.
I kind of agree, but I think a lot of it is also a genuine cluelessness about procedures and history among Trump and his staff.
 
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Casey Pelous

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... Though stated membership is often exaggerated due to how often members lose interest...
<pedantry>According to an "ex-Catholic" friend's mom*, one does not have the option of "resigning" from the Church. The only real way to become an "ex-Catholic" is to get excommunicated.

One might not be a practicing Catholic. One might be a convert to Judaism, Islam, Hinduism, Buddhism, Zoroastrianism, Rosicrucianism, Scientology, or even one of the 10,000 flavors of Protestantism. One might even be a completely disbelieving, atheistic Catholic**, but one is still on the membership rolls until the Church decides otherwise.</pedantry>


* A definitive source if ever there was one!
** These are also known as "Jesuits", per friend's mom.
 
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<pedantry>According to an "ex-Catholic" friend's mom*, one does not have the option of "resigning" from the Church. The only real way to become an "ex-Catholic" is to get excommunicated.

One might not be a practicing Catholic. One might be a convert to Judaism, Islam, Hinduism, Buddhism, Zoroastrianism, Rosicrucianism, Scientology, or even one of the 10,000 flavors of Protestantism. One might even be a completely disbelieving, atheistic Catholic**, but one is still on the membership rolls until the Church decides otherwise.</pedantry>


* A definitive source if ever there was one!
** These are also known as "Jesuits", per friend's mom.
Yes, This is exactly what I'm talking about. My family left the catholic church before I was born but could be included in their membership counts for all I know. ...I might also be a member of a presbyterian church I was made to join as a kid.
 

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<pedantry>According to an "ex-Catholic" friend's mom*, one does not have the option of "resigning" from the Church. The only real way to become an "ex-Catholic" is to get excommunicated.
I looked into it around the time the vatican was telling AIDS ravaged Africa that "Condoms are EVIL!" and again later when the whole Pope Ratzfinger child rape cover-up scandal blew wide open. Given that I was only baptised and confirmed (as a 12 or 13 year old) the church didn't really consider me a member because I never participated as an actual adult, so there wasn't much for them to 'strike from the record'.
 
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<pedantry>According to an "ex-Catholic" friend's mom*, one does not have the option of "resigning" from the Church. The only real way to become an "ex-Catholic" is to get excommunicated.
I excommunicated myself. It was a long, convoluted ceremony involving a bottle of unconsecrated wine, a box of Nilla Wafers and readings from St. Fidgeta and Other Parodies.
 

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<pedantry>According to an "ex-Catholic" friend's mom*, one does not have the option of "resigning" from the Church. The only real way to become an "ex-Catholic" is to get excommunicated.

One might not be a practicing Catholic. One might be a convert to Judaism, Islam, Hinduism, Buddhism, Zoroastrianism, Rosicrucianism, Scientology, or even one of the 10,000 flavors of Protestantism. One might even be a completely disbelieving, atheistic Catholic**, but one is still on the membership rolls until the Church decides otherwise.</pedantry>


* A definitive source if ever there was one!
** These are also known as "Jesuits", per friend's mom.
Southern Baptist memberships traditionally function this way as well. Any given congregation may work to purge their rolls to accommodate fund raising or such. But you will generally remain on the roll until you formally "move your letter" to another church (even of another denomination) or someone reliably reports you deceased.

Another oddity is that Sunday School classes operate as small, relatively independent, social circles. One needn't be a member of the church to belong to and attend a SS class. I'm on a local Methodist SS roll because I play in their handbell choir and occasionally harp for one of their services. I'm not a member of the church, but attend the class when I'm there, eat the breakfast, participate in the lesson, argue pedantic points with the teacher, and get invited to their social events throughout the year. There's my name, right there on the roll, they report me present, and the church Secretary is like "what do I do with this?"
 
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What do people do in Sunday school? Is it like a book club but always the same book? I think I would die. I’m not exactly antisocial, but I’ve always imagined it as like the Brownies (which I quit), but with religious undertones.
 

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I’ve always imagined it as like the Brownies (which I quit), but with religious undertones.
I grew up Catholic in a town overwhelmingly Protestant. Our church was well over a mile from home, and we had to walk. So to counterbalance any absences from weekly mass, my mother felt it couldn't hurt to let us spend an occasional Sunday in a local Baptist classroom with our friends. I'd say for the kids, it's very much like a religious Brownies troop sans much of the outdoor exploration, but the undertones are actually overtones. There's Bible readings and discussions. There's also arts and crafts, contests with awards and prizes, all with fairly obvious Christian connotations.
 

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What do people do in Sunday school? Is it like a book club but always the same book? I think I would die. I’m not exactly antisocial, but I’ve always imagined it as like the Brownies (which I quit), but with religious undertones.
What Isabeau said for the kids. Adult groups reflect actual New Testament gatherings of believers who study and share and and pray and support each other socially with generally little to no oversight. SS groups conduct charitable works and community outreach under the umbrella of "the church" which owns the buildings, conducts corporate worship services, and funnels income to staff, missionaries, state associations and such.

It is different from Orthodox, or Catholic, institutions which operate as a hierarchical government dictating who will be placed and what will be taught, believed, and practiced. Being put out of a Baptist church, for example, does not preclude one from joining any other Baptist church. Or perhaps only joining a Sunday School class at another church, and possibly attending their services, but never applying for corporate membership.

The primary tenant of all Protestant faiths is that individuals are responsible for our own relationship with God. Preachers, deacons, teachers attendance, baptism, and other church practices do not secure that relationship for us nor do they hinder it when we don't obey humans or observe their dictated methods. We stand before God on our own and can point to nothing and nobody, other than Christ, to answer for us. So being kicked out of a political body that calls itself a church is not the same idea as being excommunicated from an Orthodox Institution.

You can see why they call us radical doers of evil and fear our presence amongst their holiness.
 

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What do people do in Sunday school? Is it like a book club but always the same book? I think I would die. I’m not exactly antisocial, but I’ve always imagined it as like the Brownies (which I quit), but with religious undertones.
It's been a while but I vaguely remember being in Sunday school as a kid where the teacher would just tell us cute little bible stories. We rarely actually read the bible ourselves. It wasn't that bad. She obviously steered clear of the more violent or sexual stories of the bible. I rarely attended mass since I opted out of this by the time I was too old for Sunday school.
 
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