Pelosi 2, Ocasio-Cortez 0

Cristalle

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#82
Re: taxes. I think that the 70% marginal rate is fine. But it likely doesn't capture enough wealth to make the investments we need. She was probably lowballing it. 70% top marginal rate, and also increase the capital gains tax to 25% or 30%.
 

Cristalle

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#85
Apparently Cilizza couldn't take the heat for trying to portray AOC as a liar and a ditz.

 

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#87
>> Exasperated Democrats

Translation: Old Dems in need a new jobs.
 
Oct 29, 2018
89
#88
Another day, another smear job by Politico:
Exasperated Democrats try to rein in Ocasio-Cortez

But here is a great response:
Not only does the news blow shit out of proportion as if there's a big upset in the party, people like you run with it, trying to create one while calling everyone else hypocrites for calling it out.
That video was a hit job of cliches in response only to mild criticism, without any context or reference. Barely a week as a Representative, there's nothing wrong with being cautioned not to try to run so fast you fall on your face.

If you recognize the message was only media sensationalism, why do you treat it as a fight against ideals or a person?
Calls to slow down and learn the job first are not super-heinous, coordinated, corporate back-room hit jobs.
Your tin-foil hats need to come off when sitting at the table.
 
Oct 29, 2018
89
#89
Last edited:

Kaimi Kyomoon

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#90
How can we get the fucking news media to do their fucking job instead of focusing only on ad sales?
 
Oct 29, 2018
89
#91
How can we get the fucking news media to do their fucking job instead of focusing only on ad sales?
Keep calling it out.
But calling it out doesn't look sincere if you also react as if the story told it like it is.
 

Cristalle

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#92
Not only does the news blow shit out of proportion as if there's a big upset in the party, people like you run with it, trying to create one while calling everyone else hypocrites for calling it out.
That video was a hit job of cliches in response only to mild criticism, without any context or reference. Barely a week as a Representative, there's nothing wrong with being cautioned not to try to run so fast you fall on your face.

If you recognize the message was only media sensationalism, why do you treat it as a fight against ideals or a person?
Calls to slow down and learn the job first are not super-heinous, coordinated, corporate back-room hit jobs.
Your tin-foil hats need to come off when sitting at the table.
AOC is trying to get people to recognize the urgency of the issues. It's not about her. She is leveraging her visibility for the issues, and they're all like shut up and slow down, as if slowing down and making nice is going to get things moving on climate change. The Democratic Party is far too comforable ignoring broad policy issues precisely because they expect time to magically change people's minds. Emma is right: she knows what is wrong with Washington and she's working to fix that by getting masses of people who actually vote on board. It's called democracy and too many people who know how Washington works have forgotten what that means. And there are many too many tools willing to cheer that on.

Would there have been a bill to repeal PayGo without the attention brought to it by Ro Khanna and AOC? Probably not. It may not pass but it'll ready for a time when it WILL pass.

The Climate Change committee still does not have subpoena power, which is a kneecap to its effectiveness.

The media articles like these are not just sensationalism, it's a smear campaign by people associated with some of the folks interviewed to get people like her, Bernie and Elizabeth Warren out of the way so they can creep along with the status quo until the country gives us another Trump. These people do not understand how or why we got Trump to begin with. Bernie hasn't even announced and they're already bringing out the knives, like that stupid Bernie-world article and now trying to get him with #MeToo when he didn't harass anyone and wasn't even aware of the complaints. The media fridged Bernie until they couldn't ignore the fact that he was bringing in thousands of people at his rallies when Hillary Clinton couldn't fill a high school gymnasium, and you can bet that that will happen again. And they continually try to paint him as irrelevant, unlikeable, too old, etc. They have already started in on Elizabeth Warren with the "unlikeable" bullshit, now the AOC is already making enemies thing. She certainly has, it's already evident. And they are deploying the smear machine, it's coming from both sides.
 
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Sep 21, 2018
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#93
AOC is trying to get people to recognize the urgency of the issues.
I think a lot of people *do* recognize the urgency of the issues, but those people tend to be younger, like her. It is the older, and richer members of Congress that are in no hurry to change things. She's part of the leading edge of change that will replace members of Congress if they don't wake up.
 
Oct 29, 2018
89
#94
AOC is trying to get people to recognize the urgency of the issues. It's not about her. She is leveraging her visibility for the issues, and
Who the fuck doesn't recognize these issues? Especially by now.
No, there's no spectacular message we're hearing for the first time.

they're all like shut up and slow down, as if slowing down and making nice is going to get things moving on climate change.
Some people are being sexist or just assholes. Nothing wrong with calling that out.
Others are saying stop rushing to the mic and giving the media ammunition that makes you look stupid before you're ready for them.
No, climate change is not on the front burner. Should it be by now? Yes, but unfortunately, everything in the world is forced to share that burner now.
We don't even have government open or the first bill considered by the Senate yet to do even that.
I know climate change can kill us all in the near future yet we have people starving and being targeted in the present.
Nobody is telling her to not talk about that either. They're saying to stop chasing the red dots people are projecting on the wall in front of you.


The Democratic Party is far too comforable ignoring broad policy issues precisely because they expect time to magically change people's minds.
Putting a propeller on that tin-foil hat will actually make you look smarter than this line does.
I can't even say source required without laughing, but it's a fitting remark.

Emma is right: she knows what is wrong with Washington and she's working to fix that by getting masses of people who actually vote on board.
She ranting like a fucking lunatic just like you do. Maybe try holding back on the ebil dem rhetoric while the new Congress is still in the first week. There is no AOC hit job going on. GOP is trying to bully Pelosi and Democrats out of their leadership role in this legislature. Pay attention.

Would there have been a bill to repeal PayGo without the attention brought to it by Ro Khanna and AOC? Probably not. It may not pass but it'll ready for a time when it WILL pass.

The Climate Change committee still does not have subpoena power, which is a kneecap to its effectiveness.
PayGo has come and gone and come again already in recent past. I'm sure it would have and still will happen again.
Perhaps things aren't going perfectly as people think because they don't know what the fuck is going on yet.
And no, that's not signaling your queue to defend a unicorn against demon hunters. It means you woke the fuck up a couple of years ago and think you know what happened in government and politics when you slept.

The media articles like these are not just sensationalism, it's a smear campaign by people associated with some of the folks interviewed to get people like her, Bernie and Elizabeth Warren out of the way so they can creep along with the status quo until the country gives us another Trump.
Repeat the conspiracy, portray it against your still very short list of unicorns, eventually everyone's heard it over and over, and bam, it must be true.
There are always going to be people disagreeing, and even dedicated against some, amplified by the public.
Maybe try being one of those not egging it on.

MY HEROES ARE GETTING DIRTY IN THE MUD FIGHT!!1! :freakout:
It happens.

both sides.
:rolleyes:
 

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#95
AOC seems to piss off all the right people. Good enough reason for me to keep supporting her. If she wants to go for the mic, even if it does end up hurting her eventually*, it's really nobody else's right to tell her not to.




* Remember all that goofy shit Trump kept repeating during the campaign was ruining his chances at winning? Political analyst bullshit!
 

Katheryne Helendale

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#96
AOC seems to piss off all the right people. Good enough reason for me to keep supporting her. If she wants to go for the mic, even if it does end up hurting her eventually*, it's really nobody else's right to tell her not to.




* Remember all that goofy shit Trump kept repeating during the campaign was ruining his chances at winning? Political analyst bullshit!
My only real issue with her is her tendency to be dismissive of factual inaccuracies. That's going to bite her in time. Beyond that, rock on, girl!
 

Cristalle

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#97
Who the fuck doesn't recognize these issues? Especially by now.
No, there's no spectacular message we're hearing for the first time.
Hearing and acting are two different things. It is not enough to hear; it's time to act.


Some people are being sexist or just assholes. Nothing wrong with calling that out.
Others are saying stop rushing to the mic and giving the media ammunition that makes you look stupid before you're ready for them.
No, climate change is not on the front burner. Should it be by now? Yes, but unfortunately, everything in the world is forced to share that burner now.
We don't even have government open or the first bill considered by the Senate yet to do even that.
I know climate change can kill us all in the near future yet we have people starving and being targeted in the present.
Nobody is telling her to not talk about that either. They're saying to stop chasing the red dots people are projecting on the wall in front of you.
They don't want the bad press of not getting on board with her issues, especially climate change. Too damn bad. Job hazard.



Putting a propeller on that tin-foil hat will actually make you look smarter than this line does.
I can't even say source required without laughing, but it's a fitting remark.
She ranting like a fucking lunatic just like you do. Maybe try holding back on the ebil dem rhetoric while the new Congress is still in the first week. There is no AOC hit job going on. GOP is trying to bully Pelosi and Democrats out of their leadership role in this legislature. Pay attention.
You're a good example of the ostrich mentality that brought us Trump.


PayGo has come and gone and come again already in recent past. I'm sure it would have and still will happen again.
Perhaps things aren't going perfectly as people think because they don't know what the fuck is going on yet.
And no, that's not signaling your queue to defend a unicorn against demon hunters. It means you woke the fuck up a couple of years ago and think you know what happened in government and politics when you slept.
PayGo the statute, Brian, not PayGo the rule. PayGo the statute - aka Sequestration - is still a thing, it triggers automatic cuts to certain programs. That's the bill that Jayapal etc. just set forth to repeal. Get your head out of the sand. You accuse me of ranting and yet you're cursing at me. Who's ranting like a fucking lunatic? Stop projecting.


There are always going to be people disagreeing, and even dedicated against some, amplified by the public.
Maybe try being one of those not egging it on.
Take your own advice.
 
Oct 29, 2018
89
#98
Hearing and acting are two different things. It is not enough to hear; it's time to act.

They don't want the bad press of not getting on board with her issues, especially climate change. Too damn bad. Job hazard.
You're discovering that simply having specific issues alone doesn't mean they pass just because you made it into Congress.
But go ahead and spin how you know that everyone's secret plans and motivations are anti-you. I guess that's face saving.

You're a good example of the ostrich mentality that brought us Trump.
Because I don't jump on the conspiracy bandwagon that everyone is plotting against letting your new favorite MOCs make all the rules and choose placement order of every issue?
Your favorite prophesies of illuminati are rejected. It's not that my head is in the sand. I refuse to keep it transfixed to crystal balls and Ouija boards.

PayGo the statute, Brian, not PayGo the rule. PayGo the statute - aka Sequestration - is still a thing, it triggers automatic cuts to certain programs. That's the bill that Jayapal etc. just set forth to repeal. Get your head out of the sand.
Yet nobody is proposing cutting a single program against appropriations already decided.
We've already discussed that and agreed to disagree in this same thread. The statute especially, rather than just a House rule, will never see light of day in this GOP Senate. That makes it presently a waste of time.

I can see it happening eventually, but the open ended spending that Democrats were famous for before the 1980s was (wrongly) used to justify GOP racist policies, helping them win majorities nationwide for decades. PayGo was at the heart of fighting back against Tax and Spend branding.
I know it's the biggest obstacle against an effective universal healthcare as well as all costly programs being immediately possible. I also remember how ignoring demands for well-thought out financing beforehand helped give the government to Republicans for half a century.

I am in favor of most changes you might prefer. I expect us do it right when we make them to prevent repeating mistakes of the past. Spend the time planning things out (even among Democrats only and behind closed doors if that's what it takes) to implement them in ways Republicans will fail to fight against.

You accuse me of ranting and yet you're cursing at me. Who's ranting like a fucking lunatic? Stop projecting.

Take your own advice.
The video you threw out first - if you lead with rebellion propaganda like that, you brought it.
I would rather we all took the same advice and understand that it really will take supermajorities to undo damage that will otherwise last more than a generation. We aren't going to do that by feeding the public the same both sides bullshit they get from GOP and the media.

AOC won in a dark blue district. That's great. I'll even acknowledge that more left and progressive candidates can win in red areas, but not all because districts are unique. Florida looks red as hell in statewide races now but Gillum getting so close that a recount was mandatory means even this state can elect heavily progressive leaders. Other areas will still be won the same way we took them in 2018 - GOTV efforts and confident campaigning while rejecting allegiance to anyone attacking our motives and credibility. Back up the party or campaign for a different one.
 

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#99

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