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The whole time I'm reading this my brain kept intruding with "Why is a company that was founded in 2006 still being called a startup in 2024?"
I think in their minds they are a startup because they are still investing and losing money. Amazon took 9 years to make a profit. 18 years is excessive though!
 

GoblinCampFollower

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What immediately comes to mind is that most sane people want to see pedophiles locked up forever. ...but the people who want to go steps past that usually seem to be covering up for their own guilt. And I'm sure he'd not want to do this to his favorite pedophile who was all over the Epstein files...

Also, WTF is with the deep south being the most obsessed with culture war issues while they are the poorest, sickest and least educated groups in the nation by any quantifiable metric? Gavin Newsom is often seen as damaged on the national stage because of California's problems but WHY do the same people want a Governor from the deep south then?
 

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Yeah eventually they're going to have to try to sell the data outright.

In the meantime, police and other agencies already like to use services like 23andMe as warrantless DNA collection databases, so there's that I suppose.
 
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Beebo Brink

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What I really want to know is what's going to happen to all the DNA they've collected.
Upon reflection, I'll expand on my previous statement. This topic has been discussed to death on the subreddit for 23andMe, to which I (as a customer of 23andMe) have belonged for quite some time.

The biggest concern appears to be that somehow some insurance company will get ahold of this DNA data and raise prices or deny coverage to certain people based on what the company has collected. This is not a very feasible event for any number of reasons.

First off, the DNA used for their results is just key snippets, not your entire genome. As such, it's an incomplete picture of any individual's health. They hit a few highlights, as much as the marketing can sell as being useful, but it's nowhere near the range of results you'd get from a medical lab to create an in-depth health profile. They can't afford to do that extensive testing because it already costs more to do than they're charging consumers.

But even if the test results were useful, there's no unbroken chain of custody that would be necessary to establish the clear identity of the consumer. People buy these for family, for friends, and run their accounts for them. People use nicknames or false names or post office box numbers for an address. If you have 350 John Smiths in your database, how would you identify the exact five John Smiths who happen to be covered by your insurance company?

Any insurance company who wanted to use DNA results to inform their coverage would have to do so for everyone, with clear procedures for linking a specific account with the specific DNA test. This is REALLY EXPENSIVE to do for very little return, even assuming you could get it past the courts. Denying someone coverage on a probability that they might have a heart attack based on genetic factors is far less reliable than taking their blood pressure and noting their BMI.

The only other credible concern is that law enforcement has used DNA databases to help track down really egregious criminals. But not only is their significant blowback from the DNA community, it's a time-consuming process. You need experienced genealogists who can track a 4th cousin of the DNA suspect and come up with the most likely person who has that DNA. That kind of resources aren't pulled in for your average felon, you have to be in the serial killer range to merit that kind of scrutiny.

Frankly, if I'm related to a serial killer, I'm more than happy to donate my DNA to the cause.
 

Innula Zenovka

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What immediately comes to mind is that most sane people want to see pedophiles locked up forever
If you mean that literally, I'm afraid I must disagree. In most countries, and certainly the UK, which has a particularly harsh sentencing policy as compared with other European nations (to the extent we're having to release inmates early because our prisons are completely full), real full-life sentences (i.e. life without the possibility of parole) are reserved for the most serious murder cases. Currently there are around 70 inmates serving full-life sentences in England and Wales.

The term pedophilia covers a huge variety of criminal offences, ranging (in the UK) from rape of a child under 13 (potential life sentence but sentencing range generally between 6 -- 16 years, depending on the circumstances) to possession of indecent photographs of children (anything from a non-custodial, community, sentence to 10 years, depending on the circumstances and the exact charge).

I certainly wouldn't want to see the sentencing ranges for either extended, and certainly not increased to include full-life orders, for the simple reason I don't think it would achieve anything other than to increase prison overcrowding.
 

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If you mean that literally, I'm afraid I must disagree. In most countries, and certainly the UK, which has a particularly harsh sentencing policy as compared with other European nations (to the extent we're having to release inmates early because our prisons are completely full), real full-life sentences (i.e. life without the possibility of parole) are reserved for the most serious murder cases. Currently there are around 70 inmates serving full-life sentences in England and Wales.

The term pedophilia covers a huge variety of criminal offences, ranging (in the UK) from rape of a child under 13 (potential life sentence but sentencing range generally between 6 -- 16 years, depending on the circumstances) to possession of indecent photographs of children (anything from a non-custodial, community, sentence to 10 years, depending on the circumstances and the exact charge).

I certainly wouldn't want to see the sentencing ranges for either extended, and certainly not increased to include full-life orders, for the simple reason I don't think it would achieve anything other than to increase prison overcrowding.
I respect your opinion and ALMOST didn't add in the "forever" word in my post. The main point is that the FANATICAL, "Let's round up and butcher all the pedophiles!" culture over here are mostly lunatics and often covering for their own guilt. The second part of my statement you cut off was the more important one.

That said, I do respectfully think your sentences for raping a child are too short. The major issue with pedophiles is that we lack the ability to "cure" them so locking them up is just for the safety of children.
 

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I certainly wouldn't want to see the sentencing ranges for either extended, and certainly not increased to include full-life orders, for the simple reason I don't think it would achieve anything other than to increase prison overcrowding.
As reluctant as I am to agree, I also don't think there's a viable alternative if we're not resorting to castration. Most of the other strategies I've seen have never worked for "treating" pedophilia.
 
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Innula Zenovka

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I respect your opinion and ALMOST didn't add in the "forever" word in my post. The main point is that the FANATICAL, "Let's round up and butcher all the pedophiles!" culture over here are mostly lunatics and often covering for their own guilt. The second part of my statement you cut off was the more important one.

That said, I do respectfully think your sentences for raping a child are too short. The major issue with pedophiles is that we lack the ability to "cure" them so locking them up is just for the safety of children.
When determining the appropriate sentence, the judge has to consider several aspects of the case. The extent to which the defendant presents a danger of harm to the public, or particular sections of the public, is certainly one of them, but that should be a decision for the court, based on the evidence presented during the trial and in pre-sentencing reports and submissions, about the individual defendant and the risks he poses. Even then, in the most serious cases not involving murder, the judge still has to decide whether to impose a life sentence with a long minimum term to be served before release on licence can be considered by a parole board at the time or to impose a full life order, with no possibility of release ever.

I was once involved in such a case, involving one of the most frightening men I've ever encountered, a young man in his early 20s who fell to be sentenced on repeated charges of rape and false imprisonment of women from different towns and cities he'd met on online dating services and then travelled to meet at their homes, or invited to his home, and who had (at least according to evidence on his PC and mobile phone) probably assaulted many more. Basically, he seemed genuinely unable to understand that the fact a woman had consented once to have sex with him did not mean she'd thereby irrevocably consented to have sex with him on all subsequent occasions he might feel like it during the course of his visit. He'd then return home at the end of the weekend, or they would, and have no further contact with them.

Anyway, the man was clearly very dangerous and the judge, quite rightly, thought he had no alternative but to impose a life sentence. He then had to consider whether it should be a full-life sentence, with no possibility of parole. This he rejected for several reasons, one of which was that it was the same sentence he'd have imposed had the defendant raped and then murdered his victims, which would clearly have been even more serious.

Another was that he did not feel able, based on what he'd seen and heard, to say with any certainty what sort of a risk to society the man might impose several decades hence, so he was imposing a life sentence with a minimum term of imprisonment of (I think) 35 years, to reflect the severity of his offending, after which it would be up to a parole board to consider how, if at all, the defendant had benefited from the Prison Service's attempts to rehabilitate him. That didn't mean he'd necessarily ever be released, but it left the decision up to a parole board at the time. That seemed to me perfectly reasonable.

TL;DR Any form of sexual assault on a child is a grave criminal offence. However, there are degrees of gravity, and it is not in the interests of justice to impose the same, most severe, sentence in all cases.
 
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Innula Zenovka

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As reluctant as I am to agree, I also don't think there's a viable alternative if we're not resorting to castration. Most of the other strategies I've seen have never worked for "treating" pedophilia.
See my reply to Goblin.

Do you not think it appropriate for the court to distinguish between, for example, cases involving a single rape, multiple rapes, multiple rapes involving violence and sadism beyond that inherent in the act of rape itself, and rape followed by murder?
 

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I'm keeping out of this discussion. My bias against sexual predation aimed at children, at any level, distorts my ability to have a sane opinion on this subject. Though Landry can go bite on a poison apple for all I care.
 

GoblinCampFollower

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See my reply to Goblin.

Do you not think it appropriate for the court to distinguish between, for example, cases involving a single rape, multiple rapes, multiple rapes involving violence and sadism beyond that inherent in the act of rape itself, and rape followed by murder?
As always, I'm grateful for your thoughtful replies. But I don't necessarily agree that a sentence must be shorter simply because there exists even more heinous crimes. There are ALWAYS more heinous crimes. I could argue based on your reasoning that a murderer must get a short prison sentence because there are many levels of even more serious crimes they could have committed such as more creative torture before killing the victim and/or more victims.

That said, I do not believe in prison as punishment. I believe in rehabilitation and restorative justice whenever possible. I believe the best use of a life sentence in prison is just to get someone out of society when they are too dangerous to be among "normal" citizens and when they can't be cured. The fact there is always an even worse monster is not a very compelling argument to me.

I don't suspect we'll agree on this. A lot of our difference on this is cultural. But I really do appreciate seeing your perspective.