Nobody Cares about yet another assassination attempt

Noodles

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Honestly that bit about how even some of the press people who were there, don't believe it, is itself a good argument for it being staged.

I am also really curious how the trial goes. Because as it stands, it very easily could be spun up as not even an "assassination attempt". He didn't get anywhere near Trump, it seems like he didn't even get in the room. He may not have even fired shots. I mean, overall, he could be found guilty of something, just not "assassination."
 
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Beebo Brink

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I mean, overall, he could be found guilty of something, just not "assassination."
No, no, that's not how it works. You don't just get charged on successful assassinations. If it can be proved that you were TRYING to assassinate someone then yes, you do get charged with exactly that.
 

Innula Zenovka

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Honestly that bit about how even some of the press people who were there, don't believe it, is itself a good argument for it being staged.

I am also really curious how the trial goes. Because as it stands, it very easily could be spun up as not even an "assassination attempt". He didn't get anywhere near Trump, it seems like he didn't even get in the room. He may not have even fired shots. I mean, overall, he could be found guilty of something, just not "assassination."
I wonder about that, too, because the legal definition of an attempt is often tricky. In England the Criminal Attempts Act 1981 tells us that
If, with intent to commit an offence to which this section applies, a person does an act which is more than merely preparatory to the commission of the offence, he is guilty of attempting to commit the offence.
So being found trying to force the lock on a door is probably attempted burglary, assuming the jury thinks that's why the defendant was trying to force the lock, that is, but simply being near the locked door with a set of lockpicks probably isn't, since any intended burglary is still at the "merely preparatory" stage (though it may well be Going equipped for stealing).

Assuming US law is similar, I'd think that he was well beyond the merely preparatory stage by the time he emailed his letter to The New York Daily News and left his hotel room with a loaded gun, but it's less clear what he was actually preparing to do. To my mind it looks like attempted murder, even though he didn't get anywhere near the ballroom, but I'm not sure I'd go so far as to say the evidence supported, to the criminal standard, the attempted murder of any particular individual.

So charging it as an attempted assassination of the president, as opposed to the attempted murder of any of the members of the administration he could find, may be pushing things a bit.

But I don't know what the US law is on the subject, or what the evidence is.

If the grand jury throw it out, I'll laugh like a drain.
 

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Ah, you got it backwards. That just means he needed to eat moar, no stopping.

Like how cows are constantly chewing.
If you're arguing the man - like a cow - has to regurgitate his food to rechew and properly digest it... :hamster:
 
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Innula Zenovka

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One answer to that question is to be found in Peter Pomerantsev's 2014 book Nothing Is True and Everything Is Possible: The Surreal Heart of the New Russia

The Kremlin has finally mastered the art of fusing reality TV and authoritarianism to keep the great, 140-million-strong population entertained, distracted, constantly exposed to geopolitical nightmares, which if repeated enough times can become infectious. For when I talk to many of my old colleagues who are still working in the ranks of Russian media or in state corporations, they might laugh off all the Holy Russia stuff as so much PR (because everything is PR!), but their triumphant cynicism in turn means they can be made to feel there are conspiracies everywhere: because if nothing is true and all motives are corrupt and no one is to be trusted, doesn’t it mean that some dark hand must be behind everything?
 

Noodles

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No, no, that's not how it works. You don't just get charged on successful assassinations. If it can be proved that you were TRYING to assassinate someone then yes, you do get charged with exactly that.
Yeah but it kind of seems like an argument could be made that he was going after someone else.

Or even just, going back to his hotel room.
 

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No, no, that's not how it works. You don't just get charged on successful assassinations. If it can be proved that you were TRYING to assassinate someone then yes, you do get charged with exactly that.
Isn't the charge then "attempted"?
 

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On the subject of motives, what possible reason could he have for agreeing to participate in a fake attempt, knowing that if it didn't result in his death, it would at least almost certainly end up with him in prison for a very long time? That seems to me a major problem with all these false flag theories -- why on earth would he go along with them?
The promise of a presidential pardon if he goes along with it?

You're probably right that this wasn't a false flag operation. But there's just so many red flags, not the least of which are why security was so lax given who all were in attendance, and why Trump was even there in the first place, given his well known disdain for the event, and why the secret service agents were such uncharacteristically terrible shots that day.
 
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Beebo Brink

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Yeah but it kind of seems like an argument could be made that he was going after someone else.

Or even just, going back to his hotel room.
"If you can prove.... " means if there is evidence, such as his manifesto and statements to anyone while he was in California. Charging the security station counts, too, if it's in conjunction with other evidence.

I'm not saying that it can be proved in this specific instance, but Cole doesn't get an automatic free pass just because he didn't get in the room with Trump.

If there is not enough evidence to prove intent and his attorneys can cast doubt on who he was even targeting, Cole could possibly not be convicted of attempting to assassinate the president. But it's all based on evidence or lack of evidence, not just that he didn't succeed.
 

Beebo Brink

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Isn't the charge then "attempted"?
I was reacting to a very specific statement from Noodles:
Because as it stands, it very easily could be spun up as not even an "assassination attempt". He didn't get anywhere near Trump, it seems like he didn't even get in the room. He may not have even fired shots.
IF you can prove what he was trying to do, it doesn't matter if he didn't actually do it. It's still an attempt.
 
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Innula Zenovka

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The promise of a presidential pardon if he goes along with it?

You're probably right that this wasn't a false flag operation. But there's just so many red flags, not the least of which are why security was so lax given who all were in attendance, and why Trump was even there in the first place, given his well known disdain for the event, and why the secret service agents were such uncharacteristically terrible shots that day.
I guess the prospect of a presidential pardon would change things somewhat but since it would, in effect, be a public admission that the whole thing was a hoax, it seems a bit far-fetched. Admittedly Trump's mental processes aren't always particularly rational but this seems bonkers even by his standards.

I don't see that security was particularly lax, in that he was intercepted before he even got to the same floor as Trump and the rest of the guests, let alone the same room. Seems to me to have worked pretty well, considering the constraints imposed by holding the event in a busy hotel with regular hotel guests, who had nothing to do with the event, needing to use the hotel, too, with as little disruption as possible.

And I thought that it was being trailed a day or so in advance that Trump was intending to use the occasion to deliver a blistering attack on the press and then leave. That, I thought, was why he was so keen to attend.

As to the Secret Service's poor marksmanship, I have to say that were I orchestrating such a false flag operation, I would have made sure they didn't miss, since dead men tell no tales, but maybe that's just me being me being thorough.
 

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I don't see that security was particularly lax, in that he was intercepted before he even got to the same floor as Trump and the rest of the guests, let alone the same room. Seems to me to have worked pretty well
Analyst says he was perplexed at security for White House Correspondents' Dinner, says ID "not checked at any point"
Questions are swirling surrounding security at the White House Correspondents' Dinner on Saturday after shots rang out when an alleged gunman tried to charge a security checkpoint outside the event. The annual gala was attended by some 2,500 guests, including President Trump and top administration officials.

"I was perplexed even before the incident about what I saw in security," Aaron MacLean, a CBS News national security analyst and military veteran, told "CBS Mornings" in an interview on Monday.
MacLean attended the dinner for the first time this year and said his ID was not checked "at any point in the evening."

"To get into the hotel all I had to do was show a screenshot of an invitation," he said.
I'd like to see a few reports from people who've attended previous dinners, and have them compare security measures from then and now.
 

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I guess the prospect of a presidential pardon would change things somewhat but since it would, in effect, be a public admission that the whole thing was a hoax, it seems a bit far-fetched. Admittedly Trump's mental processes aren't always particularly rational but this seems bonkers even by his standards.
I doubt Trump thinks too far beyond the here and now. In his mind, he stages an assassination attempt, he and his cultists demand his ballroom on White House grounds, paid for by the taxpayers, and his loyalists in Congress give it to him. If, at any time after that, the fact it was staged comes to public light, Trump will just wave his hands and call it all fake news, and his cultists ignore reality and believe him, and the news cycle moves on to something else. Done and dusted.