#JAILTOTHECHIEF- Shit Just Got Real

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Beebo Brink

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I shared this with some friends and one of them had the temerity (I'm guessing) to suggest I was being hyperbolic.
And that's exactly how free, democratic nations slide into fascism. The complacent "But that could never happen to US, not HERE" mindset. Germany went down that road from a sophisticated, cosmopolitan nation to Nazis burning people in ovens because people didn't take Hitler seriously.
 

Romana

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I see a lot more people not being complacent. Offhand, and this is just going by stuff I come across in the normal course of perusing social media, if anyone does express complacency or denial they get jolted awake pretty fast.
I think most people are past the point of not taking Dump seriously. They either see him for what he is or they're drinking the Kool aid. Republicans see him for what he is. They're either profiting too much from him or afraid of him, and if they're complacent at all it's in thinking that he won't throw them under the bus.
The Kool Aid drinkers come in two flavors: Cult45, and the kind of disenchanted progressives who actually believe that Biden is just as bad.
And there are some who are uninformed enough to stay home like in 2016. But a lot more little are going to vote than did then.
This isn't 1930s Germany. Videos of Dump's thugs being thus go viral, first hand accounts get out. There's too much evidence for them to sweep it under the rug.
 

Kara Spengler

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Romana

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Argent Stonecutter

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Nit picking, but I never thought we had a democracy, just a republic.
A republic just means that the legitimacy of the government is devolved from the populace, rather than an aristocracy or warlords or some kind of feudal system.

A democracy means that the mechanism of government is devolved from the populace, rather than something like a council of elders or drawing lots.

These are related but not identical.

The British Commonwealth, for example, consists of a group of countries that are democratic but not republics. The head of state is the Queen of England. I can't think of any examples outside the United Kingdom itself where this has mattered more recently than Australia in the early '70s.

I can't think of examples the other way around.
 

Sovereignty

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A republic just means that the legitimacy of the government is devolved from the populace, rather than an aristocracy or warlords or some kind of feudal system.

A democracy means that the mechanism of government is devolved from the populace, rather than something like a council of elders or drawing lots.

These are related but not identical.

The British Commonwealth, for example, consists of a group of countries that are democratic but not republics. The head of state is the Queen of England. I can't think of any examples outside the United Kingdom itself where this has mattered more recently than Australia in the early '70s.

I can't think of examples the other way around.
I like that distinction. Just thinking, I'd say legitimacy is more important than mechanism.

There are undemocratic aspects to the US in the regulatory agencies and the courts. Lifetime appointments to courts and the difficulty of removing anyone appointed limit responsiveness to what the people want. These undemocratic aspects reflect the idea that some elite knows better in these matters than the general population which almost certainly is true. Under normal (hopefully) functioning, in these aspects legitimacy of the government is not in question even though the mechanism of government is distanced from the populace.

However, corruption muddies the waters. To me political loyalties are the principal form of corruption. Extreme political loyalties (e.g., "my country right or wrong") are a fount of corruption. A corrupt government is not a republic, to my naive view, and is vulnerable to fascist trends. The legitimacy of the government becomes based on people not in their right minds--which can be worse than relying on aristocracy, warlords, etc.--even though it can be democratic.

I think the most undemocratic part of the federal government is that members of the Senate represent fairly arbitrary geographical areas, not people per se. That gives McConnell (and Republicans in general) outsized control over what even gets to be heard on the Senate floor. In this respect the mechanism of the government is devolved from historical and geographical cirumcumstances not the populace. ETA: And that affects legitimacy.
 
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Cindy Claveau

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A republic just means that the legitimacy of the government is devolved from the populace, rather than an aristocracy or warlords or some kind of feudal system.

A democracy means that the mechanism of government is devolved from the populace, rather than something like a council of elders or drawing lots.
Sorry. I had to do this.

 

Kamilah Hauptmann

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Guy talking about dudes on the internet shouting it’s a republic not a democracy (I don’t drive a car I drive a Chevy lol):

 

Ashiri

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Guy talking about dudes on the internet shouting it’s a republic not a democracy (I don’t drive a car I drive a Chevy lol):

I have to wonder whether they'd get so bent of shape if the two parties had different names. Also wonder what they think republic means (bet none of them know the meaning or etymology of either democracy or republic).
 
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Innula Zenovka

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I have to wonder whether they'd get so bent of shape if the two parties had different names. Also wonder what they think republic means (bet none of them know the meaning or etymology of either democracy or republic).
They are presumably thinking of the Roman republic, one of the main historical examples available to Hamilton, Franklyn, Madison and the rest, which was anything but democratic, at least in comparison with the Athenian assembly (which wasn't anything we'd recognise as democratic, either, of course).
 

Jolene Benoir

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'I was devastated': Trump reflects on becoming President

He was devastated when he became President? So were we and so are we.

If it's so very awful, why run again? Perhaps it is because the looting has gone rather well. Perhaps it is fear of actually suffering a penalty for crimes for the very first time in his life.

Regardless of his reasons for running again, I think it's safe to say that he certainly isn't leaving many anti-democratic stones left unturned in his efforts to secure the position.
 
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