Dems Need To Learn From the UK Election to UNITE under one message: GET HIM OUT!

[Kamilah Hauptmann]

Killary deserves to be booed.

 

[Romana]

Killary deserves to be booed.

She may deserve to be booed, but “Killary” loses the post points right there. That’s a Trumper/Qanon word. I expect better off this forum.

 

[Zaida Gearbox]

In the event that Bernie Sanders is the Democratic candidate and, nevertheless, Trump somehow manages to win, I will abandon all my material belongings and run naked through the streets screaming "I WAS WRONG, INNULA!" on my one way journey to the nearest convent.

Can we get video of this and put it on YouTube?

 

[Zaida Gearbox]

I keep hearing, "Trump has definitely lost support," but I'm not seeing it in my surroundings. Trump 2020 signs are everywhere around here. Everyone I know voted for Trump last time plan to do so again this time. Everyone I know voted third party last time plan to do so again this time. But, not everyone I know voted Dem last time plan to this time. I'm hearing a few saying they're going to join the 3rd party conscience voters this time around.

ETA: My aunt - who came for Mom's surgery - told me her significant other just became a citizen in 2008 (originally from Glasgow) because he wanted to vote for Obama. My aunt voted Dem in every national election from the time she was old enough to vote until 2016 when both she and her SO voted for Jill Stein. She plans to vote 3rd party again. Her So? He's going to vote for Trump. He didn't come up for mom's surgery, so I didn't get to ask him why. And again, almost every member of my family voted Dem until 2016 when everyone broke ranks and either voted 3rd party or for Trump.

 

[Kara Spengler]

Happy to entertain.

 

[Kara Spengler]

She may deserve to be booed, but “Killary” loses the post points right there. That’s a Trumper/Qanon word. I expect better off this forum.

Well, she is killing the democratic party.

 

[Romana]

Well, she is killing the democratic party.

Just her? Really? If she is, she's far from alone. I can think of a few others who are just as guilty if not more so.
I'm no fan of Hillary, not a fan of any particular politician.
I've just had more than enough of those facile put-down nicknames thanks to 45. They make me cringe no matter who's using them.
Nothing good can come of pointing fingers and name calling, sorry.

 

[Kara Spengler]

I keep hearing, "Trump has definitely lost support," but I'm not seeing it in my surroundings. Trump 2020 signs are everywhere around here. Everyone I know voted for Trump last time plan to do so again this time. Everyone I know voted third party last time plan to do so again this time. But, not everyone I know voted Dem last time plan to this time. I'm hearing a few saying they're going to join the 3rd party conscience voters this time around.

ETA: My aunt - who came for Mom's surgery - told me her significant other just became a citizen in 2008 (originally from Glasgow) because he wanted to vote for Obama. My aunt voted Dem in every national election from the time she was old enough to vote until 2016 when both she and her SO voted for Jill Stein. She plans to vote 3rd party again. Her So? He's going to vote for Trump. He didn't come up for mom's surgery, so I didn't get to ask him why. And again, almost every member of my family voted Dem until 2016 when everyone broke ranks and either voted 3rd party or for Trump.

It depends where you live. The orange one has a base and everything he does plays to it. He does not do the usual trying to win people over that are not already for him.

 

[Kamilah Hauptmann]

Well, she is killing the democratic party.

You should probably just take the L this time on this issue.

 

[Katheryne Helendale]

An opinionated woman of color, who happens to be a congressperson, needs a white man to set her straight on how to act towards a rich white woman?
I see problems with this.

So the color of one's skin gives that person carte blanche to behave despicably?
Sorry, I don't think so.

 

[Brenda Archer]

I don't see a problem with Tlaib booing Clinton. It's politics, and being abrasive has been Tlaib's brand. It's not anywhere near the level of BS coming from the Trump rallies, that's an exaggeration. I don't have the hate for Clinton some do, but she is way, way to the right of me and to a lot of voters she represents the sliding of the Overton window to the right, even among Democrats.

I'm worried that the primaries will draw so much blood the party is weakened in the general, but too much of making nice could suppress the vote. There are a lot - a LOT - of voters out there who only vote Dem out of self-defense, but they're not at all happy about it.

 

[Brenda Archer]

So I went over to Palmer Report and I’ve been reading all the posts since Friday, and they’re trying to encourage us after the Friday mess in the Senate.

Donald Trump and the desperate last gasp of the Confederacy

 

[Innula Zenovka]

An opinionated woman of color, who happens to be a congressperson, needs a white man to set her straight on how to act towards a rich white woman?
I see problems with this.

No, but a campaign surrogate who goes badly off message like that by leading booing against the party's previous candidate when that's not what the candidate in whom she's speaking in support wants needs to be told to stay on message.

This isn't Rashida Tlaib speaking at her own rally on her own behalf -- she's there by invitation, speaking on behalf of Bernie Sanders, and that means she should stay on message.

If you're seriously suggesting that Bernie Sanders wanted to distance himself from her leading this booing but was deterred from so doing because she's "an opinionated woman of color," and he thought that remonstrating with her might make him look bad in the eyes of some of his supporters, then that seems to me to suggest you think he's probably very ill-suited for the office of President, since he's unable to stand up to his more radical supporters.

Was that the point you sought to introduce through the back door?

 

[Anya Ristow]

An opinionated woman of color, who happens to be a congressperson, needs a white man to set her straight on how to act towards a rich white woman?
I see problems with this.

Wat?
What color anyone is is beside the point. Booing Hillary was not necessary and no better than 45's rallies. The point world be to focus on the good that they believe Bernie can do, not to tear down someone who isn't even running. As a sitting Congresswoman Tlaib should be better, no matter how many Republicans aren't, and no matter what Hillary, a private citizen, said.
And Bernie fans on Twitter are playing into almost the bad stereotypes about them by piling on.
45 and co. must be loving it.

"Bernie needs to control his women--that's not a good look" is exactly how many see this. Rashida Tlaib is an important, independent person in her own right. If you have a problem with her behavior, take it up with her.

Unity and civility only ever seem to be demanded one way. It amounts to comply or we'll keep smearing you. As if Sanders' recent apologies have actually accomplished anything. If you don't recognize that there is anger involved, then you aren't taking this seriously enough. Like it or not, Sanders supporters are going to take this outside your comfort zone, because they have to.

And a reminder to everyone making unveiled and oh so cleverly veiled comparisons to 45: he won.

Bill Maher Bernie Sanders Has an 'Army' of Supporters

Bill Maher had a bleak assessment of the state of the country after today's Senate vote not to call impeachment witnesses, and as he went off on the Republicans he said Bernie Sanders has a pretty good case for being the Democratic nominee for president.

www.mediaite.com

 

[Innula Zenovka]

And a reminder to everyone making unveiled and oh so cleverly veiled comparisons to 45: he won.

I think you'll find Hillary actually won the popular vote and the Trump won only because the electoral college system gives disproportionate weight to votes cast in sparsely populated, primarily agricultural states.

Some people have also pointed to the assistance Trump received from both Fox News and Vladimir Putin, on whose support it would be, at least at present, ill-advised for the Democrats to rely should they choose Bernie Sanders as their candidate.

 

[Brenda Archer]

It sounds very different. Here, when the Democrats push policies that reduce austerity, build infrastructure or make education more available - all of which ought to help impoverished people - the poor right wing voters still keep voting Republican. This isn’t new, it’s been going on at least as long as my memory of Reaganite austerity. Democrats doing things that help people are “socialism” and the poor in the base still think it’s bad. They’ve been voting against themselves for years. This is why I say they can’t be bribed. Anything coming from a party that’s socially liberal/non racist will be rejected, no matter how useful.

Later on changes that are established will get acceptance, like the ACA. But getting the ACA was fought all the way, and a lot of right wing voters don’t realize the ACA and “Obamacare” are the same thing. The anger of ignorant people, driven by propaganda, can’t be the basis for any policy proposals.

I’ve tried talking to these people and can only make a small bit of headway. They’re determined to cling to authority figures and media figures that lie to them because of their social positions, religion or dog whistling.

This article helps describe an example of the psychology and manipulation that is at work:

How one company is making millions off Trump's war on the poor

 

[Anya Ristow]

I think you'll find Hillary actually won the popular vote and the Trump won only because the electoral college system gives disproportionate weight to votes cast in sparsely populated, primarily agricultural states.

I'm well aware of the electoral college, thank you. Also aware that it is still the way of the land in 2020. And that more than 100% of Hillary's popular vote advantage came from California, a safe, blue state in 2020, too.

 

[Anya Ristow]

This article helps describe an example of the psychology and manipulation that is at work:

How one company is making millions off Trump's war on the poor

While Maximus’ name is unfamiliar to the people it serves and the public that pays for it, it is better known among lobbyists and politicians. In the last decade, Maximus has spent $5.5 million on lobbying in Washington, DC, and its political action committee has dribbled nearly $270,000 to political races across the country. Maximus has also spent steadily at local levels, especially in states seeking to institute work requirements. Since 2015, it has allocated more than $153,000 to lobby Kentucky officials and just less than $135,000 to lobby officials in New Hampshire.

For perspective, these numbers are tiny. If the scumbags ever get serious about lobbying, we're screwed.

 

[Aeon Jiminy]

No, but a campaign surrogate who goes badly off message like that by leading booing against the party's previous candidate when that's not what the candidate in whom she's speaking in support wants needs to be told to stay on message.

This isn't Rashida Tlaib speaking at her own rally on her own behalf -- she's there by invitation, speaking on behalf of Bernie Sanders, and that means she should stay on message.

If you're seriously suggesting that Bernie Sanders wanted to distance himself from her leading this booing but was deterred from so doing because she's "an opinionated woman of color," and he thought that remonstrating with her might make him look bad in the eyes of some of his supporters, then that seems to me to suggest you think he's probably very ill-suited for the office of President, since he's unable to stand up to his more radical supporters.

Was that the point you sought to introduce through the back door?

I'm not trying to introduce anything through the back door. I'm bringing it through the front door and laying it down on the floor for everyone to see.
Rashida Tlaib is an accomplished woman of her own right and mind. She is no one's property, no matter where she goes in the world. To treat her as such is both sexist and racist. Invite her, don't invite her, but don't tell her what to think or say or how to act.

This is simply where we are. Nobody in American politics can wag fingers to a lack of civility and not come off looking like a galactic hypocrite.

Bernie Sanders had better not stand up to his " more radical supporters" if he wants to win. They are not looking for an authoritarian role model and his whole movement will tank if we try to pretend his agenda can be accomplished through "civility". Civility brought us $600 EpiPens, barbaric foreign policy, a society that treats its children and disadvantaged as financial prey, and a desperate population that believed that a game show host was their best option for change.

The civility yacht has sailed and I don't personally believe that it's passengers are going to insist on turning back because they missed us so much and didn't feel right about leaving us with so little of our Earth's resources.

 

[Innula Zenovka]

I'm not trying to introduce anything through the back for

I'm not trying to introduce anything through the back door. I'm bringing it through the front door and laying it down on the floor for everyone to see.
Rashida Tlaib is an accomplished woman of her own right and mind. She is no one's property, no matter where she goes in the world. To treat her as such is both sexist and racist. Invite her, don't invite her, but don't tell her what to think or say or how to act.

This is simply where we are. Nobody in American politics can wag fingers to a lack of civility and not come off looking like a galactic hypocrite.

Bernie Sanders had better not stand up to his " more radical supporters" if he wants to win. They are not looking for an authoritarian role model and his whole movement will tank if we try to pretend his agenda can be accomplished through "civility". Civility brought us $600 EpiPens, barbaric foreign policy, a society that treats its children and disadvantaged as financial prey, and a desperate population that believed that a game show host was their best option for change.

The civility yacht has sailed and I don't personally believe that it's passengers are going to insist on turning back because they missed us so much and didn't feel right about leaving us with so little of our Earth's resources.

Perhaps I misunderstand what, in the USA, speaking in support of a candidate at a rally organised on behalf of that candidate involves.

Here in the UK, someone speaking on behalf of a candidate at that candidate's rally is expected to speak on the lines agreed with the organisers.

If she wants to organise her own rally in support of something, that's different, but while she's an invited speaker it's his rally and his rules, surely?

If you're saying that he's content with people booing HRC and he thinks this is the best way to win, then fair enough, though to me it sounds like a pretty stupid proposition, since I thought the point of the primaries was to select a candidate for this year's election rather than to relitigate the last nomination procedure, and turning your fire on someone who's not even a candidate this time round seems a bit of an eccentric choice of target.

We'll just have to see what happens, I suppose.