Democratic Party Presidential Candidates for 2020

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Cristalle

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They're calling it a hit piece because It's not discussing her legislative record up front. It's focusing on the sensational and taking it out of the complete context of where she is now. Human Rights Campaign gave her a perfect score in the last year. And high scores in previous years. If you got past the first 90 seconds you might realize that. She also made her transition before Hillary Clinton did.
 

Brenda Archer

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I don't really understand what you mean by "giving cover." As a platform matter, if the platform calls for non-discrimination, what else do you want?
The existing non-discrimination provisions only represent a portion of the people impacted by traditional religions. They are carved out, specific exceptions that were won at great personal and community cost and after years of effort.

These exceptions in no way cover the whole of:
LGBTO communities
Disabled and neurodiverse communities
Indigenous communities fighting for land and treaty rights

Because the carve outs leave majority (religious and corporate) cultures intact, every time a minority like the ones above get targeted by a religion or conservative corporation, they have to repeat the entire exhausting process of proving their legitimacy. In addition, communities are divided when the members closest to middle class heteronormativity get theirs and the most queer and impoverished get left behind, still in the cross hairs of the religions, corporations and other powerful entities not committed to liberalism.

A genuinely non-religious party could offer a blanket statement against religious-derived norms and pursue that legislatively. The American version of this might never be strict laïcité which itself could become discriminatory. But our current system, where every minority targeted by religion and conservative entitlement has to fight for legitimacy separately and at great cost, is the reason the Left is still fragmented and weak in America.
 
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Jolene Benoir

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I'm going to give her a hard pass. If nothing else this coming election, I demand a candidate who has no past whatsoever of hateful views. Of course people can grow, but there's a difference between casual indifference to certain groups and outright antipathy (which I consider conversion therapy to be).
 

Kara Spengler

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I wish this was true...but with a prez who had no problem grabbin' em by the pussy or patting neo-nazis on the back...I feel it may only apply to Ds.


I am excited at all the prospective runners announcing or prepping to announce. Hopefully we'll have a nice crop to weed through.
Yes, it seems Ds and Rs view things differently. Rs are black and white .... you are either for them or against them. With Ds shades of grey are possible. So while an R may say 'well, this person has a few bad things but they are mostly on my side' they will choose to overlook all the bad stuff to get something they want. Meanwhile the Ds do not ignore the bad stuff so unless you are an ideal candidate you wind up getting taken down easily.
 

Kara Spengler

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They're calling it a hit piece because It's not discussing her legislative record up front. It's focusing on the sensational and taking it out of the complete context of where she is now. Human Rights Campaign gave her a perfect score in the last year. And high scores in previous years. If you got past the first 90 seconds you might realize that. She also made her transition before Hillary Clinton did.
I have not really looked into her past but I would not put credence behind what the HRC says. Their name is pretty much mud in the trans community. Up there with that transophobe Barney Frank.
 

Cristalle

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The existing non-discrimination provisions only represent a portion of the people impacted by traditional religions. They are carved out, specific exceptions that were won at great personal and community cost and after years of effort.

These exceptions in no way cover the whole of:
LGBTO communities
Disabled and neurodiverse communities
Indigenous communities fighting for land and treaty rights

Because the carve outs leave majority (religious and corporate) cultures intact, every time a minority like the ones above get targeted by a religion or conservative corporation, they have to repeat the entire exhausting process of proving their legitimacy. In addition, communities are divided when the members closest to middle class heteronormativity get theirs and the most queer and impoverished get left behind, still in the cross hairs of the religions, corporations and other powerful entities not committed to liberalism.

A genuinely non-religious party could offer a blanket statement against religious-derived norms and pursue that legislatively. The American version of this might never be strict laïcité which itself could become discriminatory. But our current system, where every minority targeted by religion and conservative entitlement has to fight for legitimacy separately and at great cost, is the reason the Left is still fragmented and weak in America.
I am sorry, but you will have to endure being a fringe for a long time, then, since a commanding majority of people have some kind of religious sentiment. Even if you triple the numbers of acknowledged atheists and agnostics, that's still about 20-30% of the population, and they aren't all left-leaning. That's no way to win. The Democratic Party as it is now is pretty secular, and people of faith have been respecting LGBTQ rights, disabled, and indigenous communities.
 

Beebo Brink

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If you have the time to watch, these videos are great to learn about Tulsi and her point of view:
Why are you pushing for Gabbard? What about her is so compelling that you feel it merits giving her the benefit of the doubt for the less than stellar aspects of her past? Help me understand what motivates you to promote her.
 
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Cristalle

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I am promoting information. She isn't my first choice.
 
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Beebo Brink

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I am promoting information. She isn't my first choice.
You started the thread, then the very first post after the OP was to offer up several videos about Gabbard in particular. For every criticism of her, you've taken the time to rebut. This gives the impression that you're actually quite invested in Gabbard, not just providing information. I find that curious, so just wondered what was up.

Either way, taking a pass on Gabbard. So far, she's pretty unimpressive.
 

Cristalle

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I responded to someone who didn't know anything about her. I had seen some interviews with her recently so I linked them. I wasn't aware of that other stuff when I first posted those links. But seeing that that has come out, I want information that is actually in context and fair to her and all candidates.
 

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>> This campaign will be powered by the strength of our convictions and our commitment to one another.

I hope they also plan to power it through donations of cash.
 

Brenda Archer

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I am sorry, but you will have to endure being a fringe for a long time, then, since a commanding majority of people have some kind of religious sentiment. Even if you triple the numbers of acknowledged atheists and agnostics, that's still about 20-30% of the population, and they aren't all left-leaning. That's no way to win. The Democratic Party as it is now is pretty secular, and people of faith have been respecting LGBTQ rights, disabled, and indigenous communities.
This just isn’t true, and ignores how hard it’s been to even achieve the partial tolerance that exists now.

I am not asking the Dems to become an atheist party. I said a two party system cannot adequately represent a large number of Americans. Positions that are standard on the Left in most first world countries can’t get a proper hearing here.

I’m not going to be told to “endure being a fringe” and then be told all the discrimination is over, at the same time - that’s absurd.

The two party system is not adequately representing a *large* number of Americans, a situation that gets worse as the hard Right keeps dragging the Overton window to the right. This is actually a way to *lose* elections by encouraging young people to believe voting is pointless, since only outdated religious perspectives get political and media legitimacy.

The Democratic Party as it is now is pretty secular, and people of faith have been respecting LGBTQ rights, disabled, and indigenous communities.
The liberal religions (the only ones that actually fit this description) are not a political or social force of any size once you get away from the coasts. They swing above their weight class in political debates because they are disproportionately the educated part of the population, but they are far outnumbered by the young “nones” and by the right wing religions in flyover states and among the old.

Telling the people who *don’t* feel represented by the current party that they now have enough and should accept their disenfranchisement for the sake of the party is exactly what got us into this mess in the first place.

We’re looking at the breakdown of a two party system that places large areas of perfectly valid political debate out of bounds and then tells both young people and minorities who haven’t won their legitimacy to shut up. It’s not a winning strategy.

The “fringe” isn’t small in number, it’s just been silenced, and it’s certainly enough to swing elections, and it’s tired of having to elect Republicans-lite because the alternative is frank Confederate fascists. All this does is erode democracy to the breaking point. And here we are, without a functional government.
 
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Cristalle

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Cristalle

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GoblinCampFollower

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Given how many qualified candidates are stepping up, we can do a helluva lot better than Gabbard. "She's not as bad you might think" isn't a standard I'm willing to accept when there are so many more attractive alternatives.
but... but... Gabbard is hot!

lol, I agree with you. I want to like her, but she's said and done a number of things that make me uncomfortable. That New Yorker article posted earlier in the thread frankly contained a creepy level of military worship that I almost commented on. Even Eisenhower said America should be a lot more careful with that kind of thing...
 
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