Democratic Party Presidential Candidates for 2020

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Cristalle

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Salome

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Yeah, that didn't happen. :rolleyes: Don't talk about intellectual dishonesty, projecting much?
I never said Bernie didn’t go around giving his same stump speech to keep himself relevant with lukewarm performative support of HRC while his surrogates attacked her, advocated voting for third parties (and Trump) while he shrugged. I look at the substance of what Bernie does, not the pantomimes. He did not meaningfully support HRC or the Democratic Party. He did not and has not used his position of leadership to make it clear how important 2016 was. That and his blind passive misogyny and racism is why I stopped supporting him. But please keep pretending you’re the expert while you hammer on the same cult nonsense from 2016.

And as for performance art, you're the only one between the two of us getting off on finding new ways to insult people.
You insult people constantly. You just think your passive aggressive snarky method is somehow more civil than directness like mine. I don’t respect you or your nonsense. I don’t care that you don’t respect me either which is why I’m happy to just ignore your shit while you have to mash buttons on everything I post. Your little routine isn’t fooling anyone and your whining victim complexes over it are tedious.

As for what gets me off, I promise you have no idea.

I'm not going point by point, that's a waste of time.
Of course it is.
 

Salome

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If Biden doesn’t take a hit after that debate performance, I’ll be surprised. It was embarrassing.
 
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Aeon Jiminy

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I didn't notice Biden's teeth slipping, he didn't drool, and about 40% of his sentences connected thoughts. I'll be surprised if he doesn't get a slight bump in polls.
 
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Jolene Benoir

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If Biden doesn’t take a hit after that debate performance, I’ll be surprised. It was embarrassing.
What did he do? I wasn't able to catch the debate and I don't have time today to find it online. Personally, I do not favor Biden and will not be voting for him in the primary. He has the same, imo, problematic old, white man outlook/experiences of life that doesn't allow him to see past his own nose into the experiences of others that don't look like him. He has his temperamental issues as well, which I find ironic being a point against him in the age of Trump, yet in this case still has a bearing upon his readiness to lead.

He still has the lead in a fair number of polls with Sanders being close, and in some cases tied, and Warren nipping at their heels. Clearly, he must appeal to a large enough demographic to maintain that even with the Trump attacks to smear his son, by extension, using a foreign power. I do think a lot of that may just be name recognition and goodwill from the fact that he served under Obama.

Though some people like to claim that he, and others, would be just status quo, or worse I recognize that we have a new status quo. One in which we steal children and reward political donors with huge contracts to imprison and dehumanize their parents. One in which every institution is being broken with deliberation, the courts are being completely overhauled and not just with normal Republican-favoring judges but with unqualified ideologues intent upon rolling back and and all hard won changes that have been made in the arena of civil rights, consumer protections, religious liberties as well as a continuation of economic issues designed to keep those with the money both in charge and controlling our political system. One in which potus attacks large swathes of people among us inciting madmen to violence. One in which every agency designed to protect the American people has been polluted by those who wish to destroy them.

Obviously, if I had to, I would vote for him against Trump in a second, no matter that he doesn't put a fire in my heart. I cannot imagine him continuing these attacks upon our institutions and people. Do you think that he has the political capitol, heart to be able to undo some of the damage that has been done as well as appoint the right people who can assist in that effort?
 

Salome

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What did he do? I wasn't able to catch the debate and I don't have time today to find it online.
For the most part he was just Joe, but when he fumbled it was painful. He gave a horrifically outdated response on sexual harassment (some grandpa thing about never raising a hand to a woman out of anger before repeating that we just have to “punch” that point through to the culture). But when Booker/Harris called the stage out on their collective race issues, Biden tried to play the Obama card and got bodied. More of the same kind of — his heart seems to be in the right place but his moment is over. Plus he was never a top of the ticket dude, even in his prime.

Personally, I do not favor Biden and will not be voting for him in the primary. He has the same, imo, problematic old, white man outlook/experiences of life that doesn't allow him to see past his own nose into the experiences of others that don't look like him. He has his temperamental issues as well, which I find ironic being a point against him in the age of Trump, yet in this case still has a bearing upon his readiness to lead.
I’m not voting for any white senior citizens in the primary.

Clearly, he must appeal to a large enough demographic to maintain that even with the Trump attacks to smear his son, by extension, using a foreign power. I do think a lot of that may just be name recognition and goodwill from the fact that he served under Obama.
The son thing just dropped another bombshell so that liability isn’t going away. It used to be that Biden was insulated from family attacks because of his multiple tragedies on that score, but we’re in the Trump era.

As for his support, right now I think a lot of it is that Joe is familiar and safe and people trust him to put the right people in charge. Plus Biden is like...empathy walking and right now a lot of people want to see empathy back in their leaders. Trump has made it clear how cruelty, inexperience, and malfeasance can dismantle institutions that were believed to be robust in short order. Plus, unlike the other old white people on stage, Biden has a history with black and POC voters. He‘s problematic, but familiar. The race really was his to lose, but he’s Biden so here we are.

Obviously, if I had to, I would vote for him against Trump in a second, no matter that he doesn't put a fire in my heart. I cannot imagine him continuing these attacks upon our institutions and people. Do you think that he has the political capitol, heart to be able to undo some of the damage that has been done as well as appoint the right people who can assist in that effort?
I think Biden would beat Trump or Pence. I’m uncertain we’ll be up against Trump, though. Given the way things are going, it might be another round of Mitt or possibly Nikki. It depends on if the GOP base refuses to give up on Trump. I’m not as sure that Biden beats Mitt or Nikki. They are both slicker politicians than he is and they would give white people an excuse to keep voting the way our demographic unfortunately votes. Biden would turn out the base better than Warren/Sanders/Pete, obviously. And we’re going to need tremendous base turnout because the fuckery from 2016 hasn’t gone anywhere.
 

Cristalle

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What did he do? I wasn't able to catch the debate and I don't have time today to find it online. Personally, I do not favor Biden and will not be voting for him in the primary. He has the same, imo, problematic old, white man outlook/experiences of life that doesn't allow him to see past his own nose into the experiences of others that don't look like him. He has his temperamental issues as well, which I find ironic being a point against him in the age of Trump, yet in this case still has a bearing upon his readiness to lead.

He still has the lead in a fair number of polls with Sanders being close, and in some cases tied, and Warren nipping at their heels. Clearly, he must appeal to a large enough demographic to maintain that even with the Trump attacks to smear his son, by extension, using a foreign power. I do think a lot of that may just be name recognition and goodwill from the fact that he served under Obama.

Though some people like to claim that he, and others, would be just status quo, or worse I recognize that we have a new status quo. One in which we steal children and reward political donors with huge contracts to imprison and dehumanize their parents. One in which every institution is being broken with deliberation, the courts are being completely overhauled and not just with normal Republican-favoring judges but with unqualified ideologues intent upon rolling back and and all hard won changes that have been made in the arena of civil rights, consumer protections, religious liberties as well as a continuation of economic issues designed to keep those with the money both in charge and controlling our political system. One in which potus attacks large swathes of people among us inciting madmen to violence. One in which every agency designed to protect the American people has been polluted by those who wish to destroy them.

Obviously, if I had to, I would vote for him against Trump in a second, no matter that he doesn't put a fire in my heart. I cannot imagine him continuing these attacks upon our institutions and people. Do you think that he has the political capitol, heart to be able to undo some of the damage that has been done as well as appoint the right people who can assist in that effort?
He continues to struggle to put sentences together coherently. He has some antiquated ideas. But because people care more about electability, and they think he's electable just because he was Obama's VP, he remains high in the rankings. His campaign continues to hide him and do fewer engagements for this reason, that the more he speaks, the less people like him.

I largely agree with you about the new normal, that's a huge concern. Especially the judiciary. But the reasons why Trump was able to do that was because of the bad policies of generations before, stacking up. So no, not just Obama, but the Bushes and to an extent Clinton, too. We have got to inspire people to get off their butts and vote, in the primary and in the general.
 

Salome

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I do think a lot of that may just be name recognition and goodwill from the fact that he served under Obama.
I think the affection between Biden and Obama helps, but mostly the base just doesn’t trust white voters, tbh, and Biden is a pragmatic and familiar choice that doesn’t go around trashing Dems. The performative left can’t be relied upon and insists on trashing the people who actually vote for us and the racism and misogyny of a majority of white voters makes them lean GOP. The sentiment I keep seeing from the base in response to Biden’s support:
 
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Salome

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Maybe its time to start a new thread that's actually about poll numbers and candidate positions, rather than intra-VVO bickering.
This candidates have websites and 538 exists. I’m not sure what you’re expecting from a message board thread? A link farm?
 

Salome

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Speaking of 538, Biden did appear to take a hit last night. And Tulsi continues to plummet.

NET FAVORABILITY
CANDIDATEBEFORE DEBATEAFTER DEBATECHANGE
Yang+12.4+17.0+4.6
Klobuchar+10.3+14.3+4.0
Buttigieg+34.4+37.3+2.9
Warren+46.3+48.6+2.4
Booker+24.6+26.4+1.8
Sanders+42.7+43.9+1.3
Harris+24.7+25.9+1.1
Steyer+1.2+2.1+0.8
Biden+47.8+44.5-3.3
Gabbard-12.5-17.0-4.5
From a survey of 3,786 likely Democratic primary voters who were surveyed between Nov. 14 and Nov. 18. The same people were surveyed again from Nov. 20 to Nov. 21; 2,077 responded to the second wave.
 
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Aeon Jiminy

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Jimmy Dore retraces a debate exchange between Tulsi Gabbard & Pete Buttigieg. It's a journey where fact, mixed with a little gaslighting, ends in breathtaking fiction by NBC News.
 

Sid

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This thread shows perfectly why mister 45 Baboon has a great chance to get a second term.
To many 'Dems' fighting each other instead of whom they should be fighting.
That is one of the main reasons why Orange Baby 45 got the first term. He'll make it a second time, because ZOMG my personal candidate should have been running.
 

Bartholomew Gallacher

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That is one of the main reasons why Orange Baby 45 got the first term. He'll make it a second time, because ZOMG my personal candidate should have been running.
No the main reason why he got the first term was that his campaign was strategically planned up to the point where he did not only was able to get a good amount of swing states, but also appeal enough to some formerly Democratic states so that they elected him instead.

So he had more electors in the college although Clinton having three million votes more in total.
 

Sid

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It was not the only reason, that's true, but...
If the Dems had been united against 45 in the last elections, he would still be hosting The Apprentice.
But no, Bernie.... and why should I bother to go out and actually vote?

That Clinton had more votes in total, is totally irrelevant.
That is how the American voting system works. It can happen again as long as they stay with a voting system that made sense two centuries ago, but is in fact totally obsolete now a days.
Same in the UK, having the most votes doesn't mean automatically you have the most seats in Parliament.
 
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