Confederate flag/statue banning thread

Kamilah Hauptmann

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Worth read all the way through.


These monuments as carriers of a mind disease is an interesting thought
 

Bartholomew Gallacher

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Getting rid of monuments is really an ancient tradition. For example when the USA were in Iraq, they destroyed all monuments and statues of Saddam Hussein.

The ancient Romans had something similar for their emperors: if the emperor was dead and was popular, he was awarded with apotheosis. But if an emperor was considered bad, instead he was a candidate for the damnatio memoriae or condemnation of memory, so basically destroying everything in the public space and beyond which reminded the public about him. This included getting rid of all his statues. Actually this practice though goes way beyond back the Romans, already in Egypt the pharaos where practicing it.

This here in America is a big, cultural clash now, an open debate with unknown outcome. One thing though is sure: some statues will finally fall, others will not.
 

Archer

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Getting rid of monuments is really an ancient tradition. For example when the USA were in Iraq, they destroyed all monuments and statues of Saddam Hussein.

The ancient Romans had something similar for their emperors: if the emperor was dead and was popular, he was awarded with apotheosis. But if an emperor was considered bad, instead he was a candidate for the damnatio memoriae or condemnation of memory, so basically destroying everything in the public space and beyond which reminded the public about him. This included getting rid of all his statues. Actually this practice though goes way beyond back the Romans, already in Egypt the pharaos where practicing it.

This here in America is a big, cultural clash now, an open debate with unknown outcome. One thing though is sure: some statues will finally fall, others will not.
It's not about statues, or really even about what they stand for. It is about white people who feel they are superior just because they're white, and they feel attacked for that (as they should). Their ancestors were willing to risk destroying this country over it, and they are no different. The various governments in the US have spent years and millions of dollars trying to lead us down the path of believing the Civil War was just a bit of unpleasantness that didn't go the way the South wanted it to, no big deal. Slaves were freed, so that took care of the issue. The educational system here was careful to continue that whitewashing, so that most people aren't even aware of how bad things have been. So generation after generation of white people have been carefully taught that since we don't own slaves anymore, that's all that matters. But the insidiousness of the message that whites are superior is embedded into every aspect of life here. THAT is the issue at hand.
 

Khamon

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It's not about statues. That's true. It's not about nooses either. This is how I placed myself in a white noose conversation on the Facebook:
Khamon said:
The sadness is that a black person in the US is likely to see any such rope arrangement as an intentionally placed threat just as a white person will likely feel threatened by any non-white adult walking down “their” street. Racism is rooted in those types of fears and fear leads to hate. Trust has to begin somewhere.
Then I saw a thread about Boy Scouts and how they tie knots and that's a good opportunity to explain to them that those knots might be interpreted as threatening. How does one reply to that?
 

Free

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Jolene Benoir

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Early on Nosey made it clear he'd been a member of SLU, and the "Nostrildamus" account was an attempt to troll the members here.

Anywho... Urban Dictionary: Nostrildamus :whistle:
He also began to whine, very quickly, about his "liberal" daughter, which was a telltale sign. As a troll, he lacks the ability to make up a different persona. My opinion is that he is similar to those like the Boogaloo Bois who saw an opportunity to come and raise "fake concern" here due to the protests, to further his own ends. That fake concern quickly gives way to his real agenda.

He begins with, "Oh yes, the cops are bad and I stand with you" but quickly reverts to racist tropes. It's who he is.

p.s. Just got around to clicking your link and all I have is "Ewwwwww"
 
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Bartholomew Gallacher

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It's not about statues, or really even about what they stand for. It is about white people who feel they are superior just because they're white, and they feel attacked for that (as they should). Their ancestors were willing to risk destroying this country over it, and they are no different. The various governments in the US have spent years and millions of dollars trying to lead us down the path of believing the Civil War was just a bit of unpleasantness that didn't go the way the South wanted it to, no big deal. Slaves were freed, so that took care of the issue. The educational system here was careful to continue that whitewashing, so that most people aren't even aware of how bad things have been. So generation after generation of white people have been carefully taught that since we don't own slaves anymore, that's all that matters. But the insidiousness of the message that whites are superior is embedded into every aspect of life here. THAT is the issue at hand.
Let me break this down into several pieces...

1. Whitewashing
History has most of the times been written by the winners, and their point of view. Why should the civil war here be any kind of different? "De bello gallico" from Caesar is the same, it has an century spanning tradition.

2. System inherent rassism
I guess we don't really need to discuss this further: the USA had an Apartheid system in place, before that slavery, practiced red lining and many of those old decisions are still a heavy burden to the affected people.

3. Political iconoclasm or pulling down statues
This is nothing new, and happens from time to time. Ironically most people are just ignorant to most statues; but pulling them out of the public though the people doing this do clearly show that they do believe that such statues are still having a substantial impact to modern society. If those people really would believe that statues have no impact there would be no reason to remove them.

This means that ironically the people who pulling off the statues are also the people who do believe the most in their impact. The term for this is "cancel culture", right? Deciding this in the end is a really tough cookie, the easier question would be probably who deserves statues in the end.

In short the USA are a very much divided nation with some heavy rifts, and that these tensions lead to such a movement was bound to happen sooner or later.
 

Argent Stonecutter

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Is it only me, or is Bubba just Nostrildamus' new account? It's the same bullshit just under a new name.
I seem to recall Bubba being a similar persona under a name like Bubba Bulbasaur in SLU. I think he was just being Nostrildamus for a while.
 

Jolene Benoir

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I seem to recall Bubba being a similar persona under a name like Bubba Bulbasaur in SLU. I think he was just being Nostrildamus for a while.
He reverted to Bubba, creating a new account, when Cris banned Nostrildamus.
 
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