Brexit.

[Innula Zenovka]

Dyson moving headquarters from UK to Singapore

Dyson is moving its headquarters from the UK to Singapore.

The decision to switch base from Malmesbury, Wiltshire, to Asia is likely to prove controversial as the company’s founder, Sir James Dyson, is a major Brexit backer.

He has previously said that he is “enormously optimistic” about UK trading post-Brexit

 

[Sid]

Money talks....

 

[Govi]

Money talks....

"...And shit walks."

That's how I have heard the phrase completed. It referred specifically to rich assholes who used their money to bludgeon others into doing their bidding, who had no principles except selfishness.

 

[Innula Zenovka]

The problem that many people, both the right-wing economic nationalists like Individual 1 and left-wing economic populists like our (mercifully small) "Lexit" (left-wing Brexit) supporters, who may or may not include Jeremy Corbyn, is that they don't appreciate that capitalism is the overarching system that gives value to both goods and labour.

If I want to buy a Dyson cleaner or air heater/fan (I have both) it doesn't really matter to me where they were produced or where the company's headquarters are, and neither does it matter to either the owner or staff of the shop that sells them, or the transport companies and drivers who move them round the UK or the banks/credit cards that facilitate all these transactions. Nor, when the government needs to raise money borrowing on the international money markets, does it matter to the government that some the money it borrows ultimately belongs to Dyson (Singapore) rather than Dyson (UK).

International capitalism is, at this point in human history, the environment in which the whole of the developed and developing world operates, and it's impossible for countries to try to wall themselves off from it.

 

[Luisa Land]

The problem that many people, both the right-wing economic nationalists like Individual 1 and left-wing economic populists like our (mercifully small) "Lexit" (left-wing Brexit) supporters, who may or may not include Jeremy Corbyn, is that they don't appreciate that capitalism is the overarching system that gives value to both goods and labour.

If I want to buy a Dyson cleaner or air heater/fan (I have both) it doesn't really matter to me where they were produced or where the company's headquarters are, and neither does it matter to either the owner or staff of the shop that sells them, or the transport companies and drivers who move them round the UK or the banks/credit cards that facilitate all these transactions. Nor, when the government needs to raise money borrowing on the international money markets, does it matter to the government that some the money it borrows ultimately belongs to Dyson (Singapore) rather than Dyson (UK).

International capitalism is, at this point in human history, the environment in which the whole of the developed and developing world operates, and it's impossible for countries to try to wall themselves off from it.

At least here on the European Continent approaches of what here in Germany is called "Soziale Marktwirtschaft" (social market economy) are and have been strong in political manifestos and in practical politics..

"The social market economy refrains from attempts to plan and guide production, the workforce, or sales, but it does support planned efforts to influence the economy through the organic means of a comprehensive economic policy coupled with flexible adaptation to market studies. Combining monetary, credit, trade, tax, customs, investment and social policies as well as other measures, this type of economic policy aims to create an economy that serves the welfare and needs of the entire population, thereby fulfilling its ultimate goal.[ .."

Social market economy - Wikipedia

We find this idea in many european countries "French dirigisme, the Dutch polder model, the Nordic model, "

If I see it correct, this idea was and is not so popular in UK. Alrhough Tony Blair at least had a similiar concept with his "Third Way"

But this idea of limiting negative consequences of the capitalism for the population do we find also among some political forces within the EU
Certainly it is always a big discussion where these forces are successfull within the EU and to what degree. And many will agree that this is not enough

 

[Bartholomew Gallacher]

Oh c'mon, this is a thing of the past, in reality Germany today is Europe's China, using a very strong neoliberal, economic approach. Though it has not outclassed the UK yet in implementing such measures, they have for sure come a long way until today in imitating Thatcher since Thatcher has been around.

 

[Innula Zenovka]

But this idea of limiting negative consequences of the capitalism for the population do we find also among some political forces within the EU

Sure. And I'm saying that's the way to do things. Trying to do it by concentrating solely on where things are produced and whether the factories are owned by commercial enterprises or by the state, though, and trying to shelter from the capitalist system behind trade and tariff barriers, though, is a bad way to do it since the international capitalist system is, like it or not, our whole trading environment.

 

[Innula Zenovka]

Thread:

 

[Porsupah Ree]

Love the first reply there:

It is always dispiriting to see someone lash out like this based on nothing more than decades of experience and a deep, even intimate, knowledge of the subject. Sad.

 

[Innula Zenovka]

 

[Da5id Weatherwax]

With the tariffs and subsidies, it can be guaranteed that locally produced goods remain cheaper than the same or similar goods imported from foreign countries. Even cheaper than re-imports. It's a simple way of protection of the national economy.

Been there, done that. Pretty much every nation has tried that approach at one time or another.

And they all completely screwed their own economies relative to everyone else who wasn't using the old outdated economic protectionist playbook.

You put protectionist tariffs on somebody else's goods and they carve out a chunk of your exports to them of roughly equivalent value and slap retaliatory tariffs on those. Every nation that's tried this has got burned by it.

And, what's worse, it doesn't work. Not one nation has ever gained in economic strength or improved the standard of living of its population with protectionist tariffs. A tariff always makes the commodity that is subject to it more expensive in the country that imposes the tariff, depressing the market for it and resulting in - at best - zero net gain in jobs or prosperity in the industry producing it locally.

Protectionist tariffs don't work and never have. Ever.

 

[Sid]

I just add Trabies and Wartburgs as examples.

 

[Tigger]

I just add Trabies and Wartburgs as examples.

I don't suppose you can expand on that a bit for those of us who are way too tired, fuzzy minded, depressed and hard of thinking to understand.

And when I say 'us' I mean 'me'.

 

[Bartholomew Gallacher]

The Trabant was the bread and butter car brand of the GDR; the Wartburg the higher class car. It you wanted to drive a real high class car this would have been a Sowjet Volga brand one.

Both cars got in common a typical delivery time of 12-17 years - yes, indeed years - so many parents ordered a car for their child already at young age. The Trabant was famous for being made mostly out of plastic and its heavily underpowered, stinky two-stroke engine.

Both cars maybe were competitive with its western counterparts in the 50s and early 60s, but after that didn't receive much improvements overall, so they just looked anachronistic like most cars in Cuba.

And this is what a Trabant looks like, in the background probably a Wartburg; so Trabants were the common sight on GDR's streets before the unification, and modern car brands sold their stuff to the former GDR.

The car plant of the Wartburg later was sold to the Adam Opel AG (British brand name: Vauxhall), which back then belonged to General Motors (since the 1929 by the way), since a few years now part of PSA - so Peugeot and Citroen:

 

[eighthdwarf Checchinato]

Actually, I would rather have seen Opel become state-owned instead of being sold to PSA. The French should focus on their own brands instead of buying others off.
I even think that each company should produce in the country of its origin only (which also means, I'm strictly against having, for example, BMW, Opel, Porsche or VW build their vehicles, vehicle parts, and other components anywhere else than in Germany - Vauxhall or Bentley anywhere else than in the UK, General Motors or Ford anywhere else than in the USA, etc: Fuck globalism and the capitalist fetish for competition.)

 

[Bartholomew Gallacher]

What makes in the modern world a German car maker German, a French one French? In reality all those companies are today multinational entities, with owners spread around the globe, using parts by components suppliers from all around the globe as well and own plants around the globe.

So while the dominant internal culture still may be German, there is no such thing like a pure America, Japanase, German or French car any longer; we just choose to still view it that way.

 

[Sid]

Actually, I would rather have seen Opel become state-owned instead of being sold to PSA. The French should focus on their own brands instead of buying others off.
I even think that each company should produce in the country of its origin only (which also means, I'm strictly against having, for example, BMW, Opel, Porsche or VW build their vehicles, vehicle parts, and other components anywhere else than in Germany - Vauxhall or Bentley anywhere else than in the UK, General Motors or Ford anywhere else than in the USA, etc: Fuck globalism and the capitalist fetish for competition.)

My point about the Trabies and the Wartburg is, that if there is no real competitive international market, producers get sloppy, non innovative.
And small countries would basically be screwed. Producing exclusively for the home market is not a smart thing for many products.

Why is is it possible that Dutch veggies and flowers are all over Europe, all year round for affordable prices?
Because of huge investments, research and innovations and large scale production. That all would not happen if these farmers only could produce for the Dutch market.

 

[Tigger]

There is no way to be a local producer.

At the very least raw materials must be imported. Steel, aluminium, copper, iron, plastics, ceramics. The only thing the UK can produce for itself in that list is ceramics and plastics, the rest we import. I suppose we could make all of our cars from wood with plastic bodies, but I'm not sure how far we'd get making motors that way.

 

[eighthdwarf Checchinato]

Oh, the actors in the exaggerated security theater play chicken already.

My point about the Trabies and the Wartburg is, that if there is no real competitive international market, producers get sloppy, non innovative.
And small countries would basically be screwed. Producing exclusively for the home market is not a smart thing for many products.

Why not? Let everyone produce their own cars, motorcycles, whatever. Let them import only raw materials and other stuff they can't produce themselves in sufficient amounts. And allow them to put tariffs on everything else to import. Why in the world should any country COMPETE with another country? Simple co-existence and co-operation on the same level is much better than exploitation and capitalist competition anyways.

 

[Kamilah Hauptmann]

Dyson to move company HQ to Singapore

Sir James Dyson, the British billionaire inventor and outspoken Brexiter who called on the government to walk away from the EU without a deal, is moving the headquarters of his vacuum cleaner and hair dryer technology company to Singapore.

The Dyson chief executive, Jim Rowan, said the move from Wiltshire to Singapore had “nothing to do with Brexit” but was about “future-proofing” the business. The move of Dyson’s legal entity from the UK to Singapore“will happen over the coming months”, meaning it could take place before Brexit.