Brexit.

[Innula Zenovka]

 

[Dakota Tebaldi]

 

[detrius]

I bet he didn't pay for that plane himself. He's got a sugar daddy somewhere (Russia?).

 

[Khamon]

She said that meetings were scheduled to begin "tonight after the motion was defeated." She may be announcing that meetings have already occurred and that agreements have been reached across the aisle. Shall we believe her?

 

[Tigger]

She said that meetings were scheduled to begin "tonight after the motion was defeated." She may be announcing that meetings have already occurred and that agreements have been reached across the aisle. Shall we believe her?

No

eta

I'll expand on that a bit. She wanted cross party talks but then went on to say that her red lines were basically immobile so in effect she only wanted cross party talks with people who already agreed with her.

 

[Luisa Land]

Britain’s a Small Country. Get Used to It.



Here an article by an indian, so a member of the past British Empire. the author argues

"Countries that were once powerful have to work hard to realize they no longer are. Some, like France, have understood that they can hold on to some of their past glory through shaping and guiding a larger collective. ......
.Last week, at India’s Raisina Dialogue, the Spanish foreign minister said that there were two types of countries in Europe: countries that are small and countries that do not know that they are small. Aside from the English, no Europeans in the audience were upset at this plain-speaking. Not even the French.
...., Britain’s cultish devotion to its past so warps its present that you might be forgiven for thinking that Winston Churchill was still alive and editing The Spectator. "


Bloomberg - Are you a robot?

 

[Innula Zenovka]

She wanted cross party talks but then went on to say that her red lines were basically immobile so in effect she only wanted cross party talks with people who already agreed with her.

I think we're going to hear a great deal over the coming weeks from both sides that's clearly untrue.

I mean, all the opposition parties are saying they won't talk to her unless, at the very least, she takes "no deal" off the table, which would require -- as far as I can see -- revoking Article 50 and repealing the EU (Withdrawal) Act, thus making the talks unnecessary.

 

[Tigger]

So she came out, she spouted some of her pre-programmed phrases, said nothing, conveyed no information, accepted none of what has happened, went back in. People wondered why the fuck she'd bothered.

 

[Tigger]

I think we're going to hear a great deal over the coming weeks from both sides that's clearly untrue.

I mean, all the opposition parties are saying they won't talk to her unless, at the very least, she takes "no deal" off the table, which would require -- as far as I can see -- revoking Article 50 and repealing the EU (Withdrawal) Act, thus making the talks unnecessary.

Well, yeah kind of. They can agree that no deal is unacceptable, this doesn't mean they have to immediately cancel art.50.

They need to do some talking, they need to understand and accept that there is nothing they can all agree on except for the damage of a no deal outcome. Then, when it's clear they can't make any progress they can either revoke article 50 or go for a Mays deal or No Brexit referendum.

 

[danielravennest]

To avoid the no-deal Brexit that just about every country in the world, let alone the EU, wants to avoid.
Where do you get these odds from? There's no precedent for this situation, after all, and, as I said, "no deal" is something the EU wants to avoid almost as much as does the UK.

My guess is she gets it from the US Congress, which has several times extended the deadline to pass the budget for the fiscal year that started Oct 1st, except this time Trump said "no, I won't sign the bills".

 

[Tigger]

 

[Innula Zenovka]

Well, yeah kind of. They can agree that no deal is unacceptable, this doesn't mean they have to immediately cancel art.50.

They need to do some talking, they need to understand and accept that there is nothing they can all agree on except for the damage of a no deal outcome. Then, when it's clear they can't make any progress they can either revoke article 50 or go for a Mays deal or No Brexit referendum.

Sure, and that's a reasonable position for them to take. My point, though, is that desirable though it would be if "no deal" were off the table, there's absolutely no way actually to take it off the table without withdrawing A50 and repealing/amending the EU (Withdrawal) Act, both of which would require getting legislation through both the Commons and the Lords. So it's a meaningless precondition to impose.

I suspect much of the negotiating is going to be unofficial, between backbenchers on both sides. Both party leaders have to deal with the fact their own MPs, both on the front and back benches, are badly divided over Brexit -- and this is as true of Labour as it is of the Conservatives, though Labour's divisions are not so deep nor so bitter as those of their opponents. Furthermore, it's pretty much impossible either for May to pull Article 50 or for her and Corbyn to agree to a mutually acceptable Brexit deal which wouldn't split both their parties down the middle.

Influential backbenchers, though, like Yvette Cooper and Dominic Grieve, can concentrate on building a cross-party coalition to try to ensure we get a second referendum when all the other possibilities have been exhausted.

Something has to give at some point, and Theresa May has, throughout her leadership of the Conservative Party, had no difficulty in declaring that things absolutely would or wouldn't happen until they suddenly didn't, or did, happen.

 

[Innula Zenovka]

I think we've found a possible replacement for her:


'She's better than the Maybot': PM upstaged by actual robot

 

[Innula Zenovka]

Sometimes I despair of my party's MPs. Good for Jon Snow calling him out on his boorish behaviour:

 

[Bartholomew Gallacher]

I do agree that the time for more delays is over; that ship has sailed. The UK had over two years to come onto terms what it wants, and what not, and how to achieve it - and still the British politicians are unable to deliver on that point, leaving all just utterly confused and the rest of the EU begging for them to finally make their mind up.

If British politicians are only able to do politics properly when they feel the heat in the kitchen, if this is what it takes that they finally leave their delusional bubble, then so be it. This is still better than extending the actual state of limbo so that they just can go on playing their meaningless games for a longer time.

What the UK needs is a perspective on how to move on, a proper roadmap - and no more silly games by some politicians with this country.

 

[Luisa Land]

It is so embarrassing to see the incompetence of both leaders of the main british parties..

May want to discuss with other parties about a solution but makes clear "Nothing has changed" We dont give up any of "our" red lines.
So what should they talk about?
Corbyn declares, he will not talk before the "non-deal-option" is put off the table by May.

Am I wrong? May can declare she doesnt want a non-deal-result. But she cant put the option off the table. This can only be done, if the parliament agreed to another option. but as we learn from the media no option has a majority. If this stays, the UK will leave without a deal...no matter what Corbyn or May want
The country suffers a big crisis, the damage to come is expected to be high, and these leaders insists on their sullen, irresponsible helpless approaches

 

[Sid]

In the Dutch newspaper Algemeen Dagblad today:

According to the Dutch Bureau for Economic Policy Analysis, a brexit without agreement costs the Dutch economy billions of euros and some 20 thousand people will lose their jobs because of the declining trade. The Netherlands export a lot of vegetables, fruit and flowers to England.
If there is no deal, import tariffs will be levied on each other's products, resulting in stacks of administrative work and traffic jams at the border (ports).
To be on the safe side, minister Blok has therefore submitted an emergency act to the House of Representatives, which will be discussed there later this week. The law gives ministers the power to amend laws on their own initiative or to take measures that deviate from the law to prevent 'unacceptable consequences' of a no deal brexit.

It is logical that the Dutch cabinet would rather see all of that (the Brexit) occur with a trade agreement. But in the meantime, it braces itself for what can come. Hundreds of extra customs officers and employees of the Food and Welfare Authority are being hired.

|
(Translated with Google Translate and a tiny bit improved with Sid's far from perfect knowledge of the English language.)

A no deal seems to be a real serious possibility now in the eyes of the EU.

 

[Kara Spengler]

I do agree that the time for more delays is over; that ship has sailed. The UK had over two years to come onto terms what it wants, and what not, and how to achieve it - and still the British politicians are unable to deliver on that point, leaving all just utterly confused and the rest of the EU begging for them to finally make their mind up.

If British politicians are only able to do politics properly when they feel the heat in the kitchen, if this is what it takes that they finally leave their delusional bubble, then so be it. This is still better than extending the actual state of limbo so that they just can go on playing their meaningless games for a longer time.

What the UK needs is a perspective on how to move on, a proper roadmap - and no more silly games by some politicians with this country.

To be fair politicians are like that all over. The only way to get them to decide anything most of the time is to do what A50 does: state what the default is as of what date if they do nothing.

 

[Innula Zenovka]

It is so embarrassing to see the incompetence of both leaders of the main british parties..

May want to discuss with other parties about a solution but makes clear "Nothing has changed" We dont give up any of "our" red lines.
So what should they talk about?
Corbyn declares, he will not talk before the "non-deal-option" is put off the table by May.

Am I wrong? May can declare she doesnt want a non-deal-result. But she cant put the option off the table. This can only be done, if the parliament agreed to another option. but as we learn from the media no option has a majority. If this stays, the UK will leave without a deal...no matter what Corbyn or May want
The country suffers a big crisis, the damage to come is expected to be high, and these leaders insists on their sullen, irresponsible helpless approaches

I think what happens next is that Parliament tries to take back control of the process -- MPs could force a delay to Brexit of 9 months, Ministers tell May: Let MPs decide on Brexit or we'll quit, Philip Hammond tells business no-deal Brexit will be stopped -- to avoid a no-deal Brexit. This obviously needs the EU27 to cooperate, but probably that won't be a problem, since the EU27 don't want to push the UK off the cliff into a no-deal Brexit if they can avoid it Brexit: EU ready to delay withdrawal until next year (evernote link because Times paywall).

While at the moment May can't afford to be seen to compromise because if she does, she'll cause a huge split in her party, if Parliament take the matter out of her hands, she's off the hook. It also takes Corbyn off the hook, since he has to deal with a similarly divided party (though nowhere near so badly divided as the Conservatives) and he has to try to reconcile the fact that most of his MPs and party members and activists want to remain in the EU with the fact that 60% of Labour MPs represent constituencies that voted Leave in the referendum.

It's very difficult for either of them to resolve the impasse, so we need MPs working across party lines to do it for them. That's what I think will happen over the coming weeks (starting Monday when May has to come back to Parliament with Plan B) but it's cutting it very fine and a lot can go wrong.

ETA:

 

[Tigger]