Brexit.

Sid

When life gives you lemons, trade them for coffee.
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<sarcastic>

Maybe the Tories can organize a referendum now about the Tunnel.
After all that thing blows garlic infested European air into the UK at times and sucks out precious British air to the other side of the now isolated continent on other occasions.
British politics already start to be boring.
Let's ask the frog.

</sarcastic>
 

Innula Zenovka

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There you go, the EU blaming already starts.
One undoubted change is that, for the last 45 years, successive governments have used the EU as a go-to excuse for unpopular policies -- domestic bills implementing EU directives are the perfect opportunity to implement related policies in that area that the department concerned wants to implement anyway. It was obviously sensible to discuss them as clauses in the legislation to domestic force to the related EU legislation than as separate bills, and also deflected criticism, since few MPs were too bothered about whether the ideas came from Brussels or some Whitehall department who'd been waiting for an opportunity to sneak them in without too much debate.

Anyway, at least for the time being, Government supporters can't blame the EU any more, since they've specifically voted for what, from today, is the new status quo.
 

Sid

When life gives you lemons, trade them for coffee.
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And as from today you have the right again to pick any dog name you want too.
 
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Bartholomew Gallacher

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We are now in day three of Brexit and the UK-EU deal, and the Guardian suddenly comes up with a strange comment named "The left must stop mourning Brexit - and start seeing its huge potential."

Just a bunch of really cloudy words, failing to really explain why the UK should suddenly become more happier without the EU compared to being within. Also failing to explain why the changes he wants to see are impossible with having a EU member ship.

 
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Some questions are only discussed on reddit.


Some theories include

It's still there, right now, but sooner rather than later, they'll have to hire tugboats to tow their part of the British isles out to the Atlantic ocean. Most of Ireland will stay put, so the process of leaving can't be finished before the Brits have cut Northern Ireland loose.

I bet they'll anchor up next to the Falklands.
It's still there, right now, but sooner rather than later, they'll have to hire tugboats to tow their part of the British isles out to the Atlantic ocean. Most of Ireland will stay put, so the process of leaving can't be finished before the Brits have cut Northern Ireland loose.

I bet they'll anchor up next to the Falklands.
 

Innula Zenovka

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We are now in day three of Brexit and the UK-EU deal, and the Guardian suddenly comes up with a strange comment named "The left must stop mourning Brexit - and start seeing its huge potential."

Just a bunch of really cloudy words, failing to really explain why the UK should suddenly become more happier without the EU compared to being within. Also failing to explain why the changes he wants to see are impossible with having a EU member ship.

Larry Elliott has always been pro-Leave, for his own, left-wing, reasons, but that aside, the fact of the matter is that, whether or not any particular changes in the UK would or wouldn't have been possible while remaining in the EU (as I deeply wish we still did, and regret that we left), we aren't in the EU any more, so that's no longer the question.

We now have to make the best of the situation in which we now find ourselves, just as we have to do with Covid-19. We're now out of the EU, much as I wish it were otherwise, and we now have to develop a new working relationship which I hope will one day lead to our rejoining, but I don't see that happening in the next 10 or 15 years.

But in January 2015, I wouldn't have believed that we'd have left the EU by January 2021, or that Donald Trump would have happened, either, so what do I know?
 

Bartholomew Gallacher

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Well talking about the EU the thing is that I do agree with Yannis Varoufakis about one thing on its moment state: the EU is right now at the parting of two roads.

It's clear that its construction is not really working any longer, because when it comes to taking the benefits you got a queue of all member states, but when it comes to obligations like refugees many downright just refuse. That's not the way this EU can work for all time.

Also the Euro was always meant to have more politics around it, which never happened. It was meant as a tool for further integration of member states, but in reality has become a big dividing factor of the EU.

So in short there are two ways about what to do with the EU in general:

a) scrap it, because it's been a nice run but now its over
b) federalise it, develop it further and finally make it really democratic.

The thing which the EU needs is clearly path b), but due to the rise of right wing nationalist parties all over the last years and the toxic climate discussing this right now seriously is more or less impossible.
 
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Innula Zenovka

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Well talking about the EU the thing is that I do agree with Yannis Varoufakis about one thing on its moment state: the EU is right now at the parting of two roads.

It's clear that its construction is not really working any longer, because when it comes to taking the benefits you got a queue of all member states, but when it comes to obligations like refugees many downright just refuse. That's not the way this EU can work for all time.

Also the Euro was always meant to have more politics around it, which never happened. It was meant as a tool for further integration of member states, but in reality has become a big dividing factor of the EU.

So in short there are two ways about what to do with the EU in general:

a) scrap it, because it's been a nice run but now its over
b) federalise it, develop it further and finally make it really democratic.

The thing which the EU needs is clearly path b), but due to the rise of right wing nationalist parties all over the last years and the toxic climate discussing this right now seriously is more or less impossible.
Though in some ways, Brexit should help, both because it's not taking up everyone's time and attention any more, and the EU no longer has to worry about the UK's anti-federalist influence holding things back.

I don't think anyone knows what the world in general or the EU in particular is going to look like in five or ten years' time, so maybe now concentrate on dealing with Hungary and Poland in particular, and seeing how things develop?
 

Innula Zenovka

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Don't know whether to click sad or angry, but I do, angry.
The great unspoken secret of British politics is that partition was a horrible mistake and the sooner NI joins the Republic and Ireland is reunited, the better, as far the Mainland poltical parties are concerned.

If and when that happens is, obviously, up to the people of Northern Ireland, but HMG, whichever party is in power, won't be sorry to see them go, and this can only hasten that day.
 
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Grandma Bates

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The extent to which the British fishing industry has been hung out to dry is starting to sink in. Thread:

Starting in November:

What is happening now:
 
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Innula Zenovka

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Bad news for Irish kids of a certain age, though probably good for their overall health


(Percy Pigs are a pretty iconic sweet or candy over here and, it would seem, in Ireland too).

ETA

 
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