Brexit.

[Chin Rey]

I'm not sure I know what is good or bad for the UK and since I'm Norwegian I don't really have the right to an opinion either.

I know of two outcomes that would have been bad for the world as a whole though. One is if EU had given in to UK's childish "strategy". That would have set a very poor precedence for all future bi- and multi-national agreements.

The other is if EU had punished UK too harshly. That would have harmed their reputation as a serious organisation and that would have been bad news for the world. I know EU is far from perfect and I'm happy my country isn't a part of it but compared to the other three big (or at least loud) powers in the world today, China, Russia and USA, they are still very much the good guys and way ahead of the other three when it comes to environment protection, equality and the rights of the individuals.

Fortunately, so far it seems EU kept its cool and although the UK probably would have gotten slightly better terms and certainly would have reached it faster and with less hassle if they had acted more mature, it wouldn't have made too much of a difference in the end.

UK got what they were willing to pay for and paid for what they got, no discount for bullying but not much punishment either. And if it turns out they want more, I'm sure EU will be happy to discuss a closer cooperation in the future.

 

[Innula Zenovka]

I make no particular claims to forecasting insight, having got the referendum result wrong, along with 2016 US presidential election and the subsequent two British general elections, but the idea that anyone, particularly a Tory MP, is surprised by this is ... well

Brexit: fishing chiefs cry ‘betrayal’ as MPs fear rush to ratify deal

‘UK caved in on fish to win a wider treaty’, industry bodies say, while leading Brexiter David Davis says one-day debate is ‘too fast’

www.theguardian.com

There was never any set of circumstances in which fishing was going to be the reason talks broke down and we ended up with a no-deal Brexit. Fishing, whatever its importance to particular communities, and whatever emotional attachment people may feel to the industry, is simply nowhere near important enough to anyone's economy, EU members or the UK, to be the hill on which anyone died.

This, I am sure, is a distraction to keep the ERG busy so they're focussed on one particular issue that's going nowhere, and while they're busy worrying about fish quotas, they're ignoring all the however many thousand pages it is in the agreement, which I suspect contains plenty that that will, when eventually they come to find out about it, upset them far more than does the price of cod.

(I see it's David Davis, thick as mince and lazy as a toad, complaining).

 

[Arkady Arkright]

(I see it's David Davis, thick as mince and lazy as a toad, complaining).

Whatever happened to David Davis ? I always used to regard him as a good guy with his heart in the right place...

 

[Innula Zenovka]

He's a Hull MP, so that probably has something to do with it. My late partner was from up there, and it's a rum part of the world.

 

[Innula Zenovka]

 

[Innula Zenovka]

Getting Brexit done

 

[Sid]

What is wrong with building in possible evaluation points in an agreement to make sure both sides stay happy and don't get into a situation to withdraw from it.
There still has to be negotiated a lot. And a lot of issues could be a lot better arranged.

And besides we can't have it that this thread ends somewhere next week, can we?

 

[Innula Zenovka]

Tesco: Brexit impact on food prices 'very modest'

The deal means any changes would "hardly be felt" by shoppers, says the supermarket's chairman.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[Innula Zenovka]

What is wrong with building in possible evaluation points in an agreement to make sure both sides stay happy and don't get into a situation to withdraw from it.
There still has to be negotiated a lot. And a lot of issues could be a lot be better arranged.

And besides we can't have it that this thread ends somewhere next week, can we?

Nothing, but it ensures, I think, that Cameron's attempt to make divisions in his own party over the EU go away by means of a referendum will prove about as successful as his attempts to spike the SNP's guns by using the same device, since we have the same arguments to look forward to in five or six years' time.

 

[Sid]

Both sides can start discussions about tweaking the agreement, but it is not mandatory IMHO. So if both sides agree, it will just stay as it is for another 5 years.
There is no need to have negotiation rounds like we have seen the last 5 years.
Unless one side thinks it is good politics to start them 5 minutes before midnight again.

And the agreement does not prohibit to come to other mutual agreements outside this Christmas Eve one.
So new supplemental negotiations could start Friday 1st already, not that I think they will start so soon, and those can be limited to very specific issues. One at the time.

Most important for now is that there will be an agreement and that complete chaos is avoided on both sides of the pond starting Friday.
So lets hope enough UK MP's and MEP's and EU leaders are aware of what voting against The Christmas Eve Agreement would to.

 

[Innula Zenovka]

Both sides can start discussions about tweaking the agreement, but it is not mandatory IMHO. So if both sides agree, it will just stay as it is for another 5 years.
There is no need to have negotiation rounds like we have seen the last 5 years.
Unless one side thinks it is good politics to start them 5 minutes before midnight again.

And the agreement does not prohibit to come to other mutual agreements outside this Christmas Eve one.
So new supplemental negotiations could start Friday 1st already, not that I think they will start so soon, and those can be limited to very specific issues. One at the time.

Most important for now is that there will be an agreement and that complete chaos is avoided on both sides of the pond starting Friday.
So lets hope enough UK MP's and MEP's and EU leaders are aware of what voting against The Christmas Eve Agreement would to.

It will pass here without any difficulties -- Labour are, somewhat contentiously, backing it, so the most serious opposition will come from inside Johnson's own party, and that's not, I think, going to go away as the anti-EU ultras realise what they've been bounced into.

I'm wondering how the EU Parliament will react to being presented with a fait accompli like this, but I'm sure they'll come round to it.

 

[Sid]

I think that the MEP very much realize that there is no other option than to accept the agreement as well.
The EU is far from ready to handle with a no deal situation on January first, and they all know that a no deal is bad for business for many years to come. Not only on the UK side. And economy gets beaten up enough already from the corona crisis.
Plus that renewal option in 5 years is a great argument to go along in the end, even when not really satisfied.

 

[Innula Zenovka]

 

[Sid]

EU states unanimously back Brexit trade and security deal

Backing of EU27 paves way for new arrangements between UK and EU to come into force on 1 January

www.theguardian.com

At a meeting of ambassadors in Brussels, the 27 member states gave their support for the 1,246-page treaty to be “provisionally applied” at the end of the year. The decision will be formally completed by written procedure at 3pm central European time (1400 GMT) on Tuesday.

The only obstacles standing in the way of the deal coming into force are votes by MPs and peers in the House of Commons and the House of Lords. The UK parliament has been recalled to sit on Wednesday 30 December to debate and vote on the legislation.

The European parliament is delaying its vote, to February or March, when it is hoped MEPs will return to Strasbourg to complete the formal EU ratification process.

MEPs had said they did not have sufficient time before the end of the year to scrutinise the deal.

 

[Innula Zenovka]

 

[Sid]

The matter was way to complex for a simple referendum vote.
This man is a good example for that, just as the fact that the British government is celebrating that they accomplished a better than nothing deal with the EU.

 

[Innula Zenovka]

 

[Innula Zenovka]

Ports warned that post-Brexit disruption is inevitable

Disruption at ports is inevitable at the end of the transition period for leaving the EU because many companies do not have the paperwork required to move goods across the border, a top Brexit think tank has warned.Katy Hayward, a fellow at UK in a Changing Europe and professor at Queen’s Universit

www.thetimes.co.uk

Evernote link because paywall

 

[Chin Rey]

Ports warned that post-Brexit disruption is inevitable

Disruption at ports is inevitable at the end of the transition period for leaving the EU because many companies do not have the paperwork required to move goods across the border, a top Brexit think tank has warned.Katy Hayward, a fellow at UK in a Changing Europe and professor at Queen’s Universit

www.thetimes.co.uk

There's an old well established rule in serious journalism: "Dog bites man" is not news, "man bites dog" is.

In a sane world, this would have belonged firmly in the "dog bites man" category.

 

[Stora]

Brexit deal mentions Netscape browser and Mozilla Mail

References to decades-old computer software are included in the new Brexit agreement, including a description of Netscape Communicator and Mozilla Mail as being "modern" services.

Brexit deal mentions Netscape browser and Mozilla Mail