Are Gachas Considered Loot Boxes (And Gambling)?

[Kamilah Hauptmann]

This is an interesting take. I fully agree that the complete gacha is awful, but...

You are the first I've heard that feels it is the root of the problem?

Eku talked about in more detail here: Are Gachas Considered Loot Boxes (And Gambling)?

Also at length in SLU.

 

[Clara D.]

The last one of course, because this time it's the real thing,... I see your experience with doom cults is limited? Oh I envy you

I was one of the free accounts that killed it back in '06 . . . so it's arguably been dead since they did away with prim libraries. Lol.

 

[Adeon Writer]

Eku talked about in more detail here: Are Gachas Considered Loot Boxes (And Gambling)?
Also at length in SLU.

Thanks. That makes more sense in this context.
However, Linden's ban seems more related to Germany's lootbox ban, which standard Gachas are pretty much identical to.
(Actually, Gatchas are a little worse - since you can real-world-money profit from lucky pulls, and lootboxes typically give you rewards you can't sell off for real world money)

 

[Clara D.]

Are you five?

/me puts MLP stickers all over Kamilah!

 

[Gear]

Thanks. That makes more sense in this context.
However, Linden's ban seems more related to Germany's lootbox ban, which standard Gachas are pretty much identical to.
(Actually, Gatchas are a little worse - since you can real-world-money profit from lucky pulls, and lootboxes typically give you rewards you can't sell off for real world money)

This is basically tied to ongoing regulations, and LL is getting out in front of things before they are MADE to respond to things on someone else's time table.

 

[Jopsy Pendragon]

Nothing unique or insightful to add... Other than I think gachas are unethical, predatory, and a repulsive exploitation of Skinner's random reward/random interval conditioning and the sunk cost fallacy.

The SL economy may suffer from their abrupt removal... But I'll still be glad to see them gone.

 

[Lance Corrimal]

Thanks. That makes more sense in this context.
However, Linden's ban seems more related to Germany's lootbox ban, which standard Gachas are pretty much identical to.
(Actually, Gatchas are a little worse - since you can real-world-money profit from lucky pulls, and lootboxes typically give you rewards you can't sell off for real world money)

it's not just germany, other european countries interpreted the EU rules "template" even more strict.

 

[Lance Corrimal]

here is my first reaction to the news about gachas being banned:

/me shrugs.

 

[Argent Stonecutter]

This is an interesting take. I fully agree that the complete gacha is awful, but...
You are the first I've heard that feels it is the root of the problem?

Um, it's kind of THE problem with gatchas. People are always complaining about having to buy gatchas to get the rare part you need to complete the set.

And that's how Japan dealt with them, just banning complete gatchas. Because they *are* the root of the problem.

Regular gatchas have been a great way for me to get transferrable animal avatars to "ONE OF US" at people with, and I will be sorry to see them gone.

What's next, banning lucky chairs?

 

[Free]

Is this thread the common or the rare one?

 

[Adeon Writer]

Um, it's kind of THE problem with gatchas. People are always complaining about having to buy gatchas to get the rare part you need to complete the set.

And that's how Japan dealt with them, just banning complete gatchas. Because they *are* the root of the problem.

Regular gatchas have been a great way for me to get transferrable animal avatars to "ONE OF US" at people with, and I will be sorry to see them gone.

What's next, banning lucky chairs?

My understanding was gachas are not banned because of the unpredictable nature, they are banned for the predatory, addictive nature to suck money out of people. Same reason slot machines are banned in some laws, as well as lootboxes.

Banning the unpredictable nature is simply the only black and white way you can do a law, you can't just say "You aren't allowed to have predatory, addictive behavoir" because it's too grey of a rule.

This new type of script skirts around the ban, while still being the thing the spirit of the law is trying to prevent.

That's why I'd like a response.

Lucky chairs wouldn't be banned because you don't pay anything.

 

[Fionalein]

Is this thread the common or the rare one?

neither, it's the "event exclusive"

 

[Free]

neither, it's the "event exclusive"

You can use your sticker now. Just make sure it sticks.

 

[Argent Stonecutter]

My understanding was gachas are not banned because of the unpredictable nature, they are banned for the predatory, addictive nature to suck money out of people.

If you always get something of value, then you don't get people coming back trying to get the left sleeve or whatever it is you need to complete the set and actually walk away with something you can use.

This new type of script

I can't parse that. What script?

That's why I'd like a response.

To what?

 

[Adeon Writer]

If you always get something of value, then you don't get people coming back trying to get the left sleeve or whatever it is you need to complete the set and actually walk away with something you can use.

I can't parse that. What script?

To what?

My mistake, everything is split into three threads, I forgot the thing that’s going to replace gachas wasn’t discussed in this one.

in short:

So the Gacha people already have a gameplan.

Linden's rule is that you must 100% know what you are going to get at the time of purchase. You can't ever hope for one thing and actually end up buying another.

..So the Gacha people are simply going to make the devices tell you what they're about to give you for their next purchace. They still have rarity and all that, so of course no one's going to leave it on a good item: You have to go to a Gacha and think if you want to pay to have it roll and buy it and the thing you want if it shows up.

They’ll be given a short window of exclusivity after buying one to buy the next, to protect from sniping and pressure an impulse buy. If they play their cards right, they can have something even more addicting than what LL is banning. At the end of the day, it changes almost nothing.

Linden hasn't commented on it yet, but I've specifically asked Patch Linden for his input on if this loophole is going to be permitted.

 

[Argent Stonecutter]

So basically lucky chairs you pay for.

Which doesn't do anything to prevent them using the whole "complete gacha" scam in a new format. Lovely.

The only way to ban complete gacha is to ban complete gacha. If there are no "bad items" there's no problem.

 

[Sid]

Is this thread the common or the rare one?

You are in it, I'm in it now, so it must be for the rare ones.

 

[Sid]

I wonder if a tin foil hat gacha vendor still could make enough money during the 28 days left?
The comon ones protect against the sky falling.
The rare one with a covid protecting antenna on top of it as an extra feature.

 

[Adeon Writer]

So basically lucky chairs you pay for.

Which doesn't do anything to prevent them using the whole "complete gacha" scam in a new format. Lovely.

The only way to ban complete gacha is to ban complete gacha. If there are no "bad items" there's no problem.

Yes. The issue comes in making a rule that has no loopholes or is open to interpretation or grey areas.

Make no mistake, Linden *only* cares about not getting fined. They don’t care what scripts are made as long as they are complying with laws.

The situation is the German laws forbidding gachas entirely supercede the Japanese laws that only forbid complete gacha.

And the new “show what is next” loophole complies with both, while violating the spirit of both.

 

[WolfEyes]

You can use your sticker now. Just make sure it sticks.

They keep falling off and I can't see.