Presidential Debate

danielravennest

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Good. Not sure if donnie meant the Portland Police Chief or the Multnomah County Sheriff though.
Multnomah County does the policing for the city of Portland. The county contains Portland, a few small cities, and a fair chunk of forest land. 80% of the county's population is in Portland, and it is also the county seat, so it doesn't make much sense to have separate departments.
 
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Multnomah County does the policing for the city of Portland. The county contains Portland, a few small cities, and a fair chunk of forest land. 80% of the county's population is in Portland, and it is also the county seat, so it doesn't make much sense to have separate departments.
I live here. You are incorrect. The Portland Police bureau has 900 officers. The Multnomah County Sheriff is not usually involved within the city.
 
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Katheryne Helendale

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I missed the bit where he did that, and so did the papers I read, though admittedly they are (you may not be wholly surprised to learn) mostly the lying mainstream establishment media.

Can you help me out, preferably with a direct reference rather than a YouTube video of some guy I've never heard of rambling on for half an hour or so?
I think Aeon is still butthurt that no glorified universal healthcare system is on Biden's current agenda.
 

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I live here. You are incorrect. The Portland Police bureau has 900 officers. The Multnomah County Sheriff is not usually involved within the city.
I found someone in Portland and in charge of police there to some degree who might be on Trump's side.

 

Innula Zenovka

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I liked this, from the rundown of comments:

On rightwing media, Trump attracted predictable praise. On Fox News, the pundit Dan Bongino insisted, “Trump’s strategy tonight was executed brilliantly” and added: “Trump is an apex predator. He’s the lion king. Trump went out there tonight and did what Trump does. He’s the shark in the ocean and he acted like it. He lost no one from his base, no one.”
Yes, that's very likely the case, but when you're as far behind in the polls as is Trump, not losing any of your base ain't going to cut it as a winning strategy.

"We're three-nil down at half-time -- our strategy for the second half is not to let any more goals in."

And then

The conservative focus group guru Frank Luntz brought together independent or undecided voters for a session streamed on YouTube. Individuals described Trump as “horrid”, “chaotic”, “unpolished”, “puzzling”, “un-American”, “unhinged”, “forceful”, “unhinged”, “arrogant” and a “bully”.

One voter, Ruthie from Pennsylvania, a vital swing state, became an instant internet star. She had been undecided, she said, but would now vote for Biden – who she had watched trying to “win an argument with a crackhead”.
 

danielravennest

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I live here. You are incorrect. The Portland Police bureau has 900 officers. The Multnomah County Sheriff is not usually involved within the city.
I stand corrected. But Trump said "Sheriff of Portland". So if the county sheriff and city police chief are separate people, he was making up a fake person.
 
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I stand corrected. But Trump said "Sherriff of Portland". So if the county sherriff and city police chief are separate people, he was making up a fake person.
Yes exactly, or he is confused as usual.
 

Innula Zenovka

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I think Aeon is still butthurt that no glorified universal healthcare system is on Biden's current agenda.
Quite possibly, but I thought Biden's idea was to leave no one without some form of medical insurance, be it Medicare or their existing insurance, rather than to leave people without cover.

I get really frustrated with people who say that Medicare for All is a desirable goal, since that does absolutely nothing about the way healthcare is delivered in the US, which is the real problem -- the US spends far more on healthcare as a proportion of GDP than do other OECD countries (almost twice as much as does the UK) with far worse outcomes.

That's not because there's anything wrong with US doctors, nurses and other healthcare staff, but because the system that delivers it designed not to provide quality healthcare to all patients who need it but to deliver a good return on investment to shareholders.

Simply having the government take over pumping money into a broken system seems to me a really bad solution (but then I'm a socialist of sorts).
 
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Katheryne Helendale

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I wonder if it might be a good idea if the Biden campaign would cancel the second 'debate'.
With an idiot like Trump a halfway normal debate seems impossible.
I think that would backfire badly for Biden. Trump would certainly use such a move as ammunition, accusing Joe of "running scared". No, Joe needs to stay the course, and maybe insist that the moderators have a means of muting the microphones.
 

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President Donald Trump tried to walk back his shoutout to the far-right extremist group known as the Proud Boys on Wednesday by claiming he doesn’t know who they are–despite calling on them by name and telling them to “stand by” the night before.

“I don’t know who Proud Boys are,” Trump told reporters. “But whoever they are, they have to stand down and let law enforcement do their work.”
Oh well, the Proud Boys had their moment but now that we know Trump doesn't even have a clue who they are, they'll sink back into the swamps they crawled out of and never be heard from again. Right?
 

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Quite possibly, but I thought Biden's idea was to leave no one without some form of medical insurance, be it Medicare or their existing insurance, rather than to leave people without cover.

I get really frustrated with people who say that Medicare for All is a desirable goal, since that does absolutely nothing about the way healthcare is delivered in the US, which is the real problem -- the US spends far more on healthcare as a proportion of GDP than do other OECD countries (almost twice as much as does the UK) with far worse outcomes.

That's not because there's anything wrong with US doctors, nurses and other healthcare staff, but because the system that delivers it designed not to provide quality healthcare to all patients who need it but to deliver a good return on investment to shareholders.

Simply having the government take over pumping money into a broken system seems to me a really bad solution (but then I'm a socialist of sorts).
My husband and I are covered by Medicare, being of that certain age. Recipients all get statements of bills paid when Medicare receives and pays a medical service provider. The raw reality for us, for Medicare, and for the providers is that Medicare does not pay what it is billed. For covered expenses, it pays what might be called the "reasonable and usual" amount for the covered service. In central coastal California, this can range from 80% to (more commonly) 10% of the amount billed. Medicare makes national assessments of provider costs and reasonable profits, makes (probably complex) adjustments, and then settles on the amount it will pay. The point I've been trying to make is that it pays less than the bill and pays differently in each area of the United States. This is how I hear "Medicare for all," and it means that the monopsony of Medicare will be extended to 100%, not merely the present elderly and other eligible citizens.

It is a fundamental change for the American health industry. The gotcha in this (in which Medicare is the issuer of the "gotcha") is that if a provider provides care to a Medicare patient, that provider also agrees to accept Medicare payments as payment in full. There are exceptions and for those on small fixed incomes, those exceptions can be painful to the budget, but the end effect is very much the same as the NHS, as I see it.
 

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My husband and I are covered by Medicare, being of that certain age. Recipients all get statements of bills paid when Medicare receives and pays a medical service provider. The raw reality for us, for Medicare, and for the providers is that Medicare does not pay what it is billed. For covered expenses, it pays what might be called the "reasonable and usual" amount for the covered service. In central coastal California, this can range from 80% to (more commonly) 10% of the amount billed. Medicare makes national assessments of provider costs and reasonable profits, makes (probably complex) adjustments, and then settles on the amount it will pay. The point I've been trying to make is that it pays less than the bill and pays differently in each area of the United States. This is how I hear "Medicare for all," and it means that the monopsony of Medicare will be extended to 100%, not merely the present elderly and other eligible citizens.

It is a fundamental change for the American health industry. The gotcha in this (in which Medicare is the issuer of the "gotcha") is that if a provider provides care to a Medicare patient, that provider also agrees to accept Medicare payments as payment in full. There are exceptions and for those on small fixed incomes, those exceptions can be painful to the budget, but the end effect is very much the same as the NHS, as I see it.
It's not, though, simply a question of medical care being free at the point of delivery to those in need, though obviously that's a vital part of it.

My point is that health care in most countries is delivered as a vital service to the population. Hospitals and clinics are built and managed not by private companies who are interested in making a profit for investors by providing healthcare but by public health authorities, who are trying to provide a full range of health care, from local general practitioners and dentists at one level to clinics and hospitals and specialist units at the regional and national level.

It also, as I understand it, changes the whole basic of medical practice, because hospitals and medical practices are no longer thinking of medical treatment in terms of multiple discrete billable treatments and services, and there's no dancing around what's covered by which policy.

It's completely different, and not simply a matter of patients not being billed for treatment.

Health care in most places is recognised as an important right, and it's a major concern of government to provide it -- the standard of health care in the NHS is at least as big a political concern for British governments as the employment figures or taxation.

It's a huge benefit to people living in poorer communities not just that they don't have to pay for treatment but that the appropriate treatment is delivered more or less locally, for one thing. I've read about the effects of Covid-19 on community medical care in the poorer and more rural parts of some southern US states (Georgia, I think was one), with hospitals and clinics facing closure because they've had to postpone, because of Covid-19, so much billable treatment on which their income depends -- that doesn't happen if you have a national health service.
 
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Exactly. The US has undergone a consolidation since the rise of Health Maintenance Organizations in the 80s that essentially combined insurance and delivery into management companies that run many seemingly independent hospitals. We have a smaller number of larger medical centers in urban areas (although many are moving to the suburbs). But usually these are not in poor urban areas. So both inner cities and rural areas have less service than they need considering health problems and transportation issues.
 
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Using Newsweek to to justify your point of view about Biden's demographic hurdles? Fuck off.

I didn't claim Biden didn't have some problems on the Latino front. What I basically was saying was: USING GARBAGE WEB POLLS TO ARGUE YOUR POINT IS FUCKING NONSENSE.
Maybe it's because the usual mainstream outlets aren't reporting it, but reputable pollsters have been showing for several weeks now that Biden DOES have a Latino voter problem. And so the "garbage web poll" while not scientific or with any kind of rigorous standard may not be so unreflective as you think.

Google "Biden Latino vote" and pick the sources you care for and get up to snuff.
 

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I think Aeon is still butthurt that no glorified universal healthcare system is on Biden's current agenda.
That's incredibly condescending. There are a lot of people who, even under the ACA, functionally have no insurance because using it would be too expensive. Because simpletons keep soiling their underpants over "socialism" when nobody is asking for real socialism, we can't have smart policies that other advanced nations have.

If things like health care matter, and you're poor, it's not just being "butthurt." But let's cry about other people and their privilege now.