The Russia-Ukraine War has begun

Bartholomew Gallacher

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You can always siege such an installation when you've got the luxury of having that time. When food and waters supplies are gone most people will start moving on their own outwards.
 

Innula Zenovka

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You can always siege such an installation when you've got the luxury of having that time. When food and waters supplies are gone most people will start moving on their own outwards.
Yes, but while your forces are laying siege to somewhere, they're unable to do anything elsewhere. And since the defenders of the steelworks, particularly the members of the Azov Brigade, know what's going to happen to them if they surrender, they have don't have anything to lose.
 

Bartholomew Gallacher

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I've posted this before in the thread but, for what it's worth, the BBC's Ross Atkins says they've changed a lot since they ceased to be an independent militia and were adopted into the Ukrainian national guard
Then let me spread some hard facts, not about Azov though. But just to give some context about Ukraine.

Enter: Wasil Maruchinez, who was Ukraine's counsel in Hamburg, Germany. So somebody who works officially for that state. And here's a nice picture of him:



He was suspended from his job back in 2018 for a short time period, because Ukrainian video blogger Anatoli Schari disclosed that Maruchinez published on Facebook that it is "honorable to be a fascist", and many other similar posts. This is why Maruchinez was pulled out of Germany.

Schari had founded an own party in the Ukraine, but lives now in the EU. The Ukrainian intelligence agency SBU initiated in 2021 a trial against Schari for treason. Schari refused to go to the Ukraine for this, because he's sure that he will not survive more than 24 hours. In fact he had already some nasty encounters with Ukrainians where he's living in Spain.

The head of the SBU is Ivan Bakanov. Why did he became head of it? Well, because... he's a childhood friend of Selenskij.

For more background read this, maybe using DeepL or Google Translate:

This is the video where Schari disclosed a lot of Facebook posts, it has English sub titles; he's got around 3 million followers, so is quite able to move the masses:

This is a video where you can see at 14:04 that Maruchinez got from his employees at this 60th birthday a cake with "Mein Kampf" written on it:

Zelenskij doens't like Schari, so he's facing all kind of oppression coming from Ukraine. And he's not the only one.

Again: these events and videos happened before 2022. But it clearly shows that not all is just gold and glory as well here.
Schari for himself though is also no stranger to nazism, because in 2010 he wrote a very bizarre article named "Long live Nazism!".
"Long live Nazism!".

Where he really argued that Ukraine needs Nazism, badly:

"We must not pull the country out of the garbage pit using the rotten rope of nationalism. We need Nazism. As air is necessary, as water. The Nazi idea. Thanks to Adolf Schicklgruber, the idea of Nazism has now become taboo. But, in fact, Hitler built a nationalist state, not a Nazi one! Himmler did not broadcast from the rostrum that all those living in great Germany were of a higher race. He specifically shouted about the Germans. About the glorious descendants of the higher race. Court historians have confirmed the uniqueness of the German breed, and surprised the population of the planet Earth with colossal paleontological discoveries. Doesn't resemble anything? Reminds, of course. Ukrainian historians have almost come close to unraveling the territorial location of the Garden of Eden. He was, of course, in Khoruzhevka. Adam's name was Nicholas, and Eve's name was Paraskaya.

Nazism presupposes the idea of moving a nation forward, regardless of the nationalities of individual members of that nation. The most famous Nazi country is the United States. It is not necessary to talk about the nationality of Americans, because there is simply no such nationality. But pride in one's country spreads out any Korean and African who has a passport with eagles and cacti in his pocket. And the ideology of the Americans is all right. They believe in democracy and private property. Democracy may not smell there, but belief in it moves the nation forward at the speed of sound. The people of the States have unshakable shrines, they have love for their country, they have historical figures who are heroes, and the machine for creating useful, positive myths also works flawlessly.

Today, none of the politicians (with the exception of the Communist Party, but the ideology of communism is by no means unifying on this earth) can really offer Ukrainians a Nazi idea. An idea that would cement the people regardless of the language of communication, place of residence and religion.

At best, thoughts of the nation's proposal of ideas and ideology are transformed into chatter about ideas and ideologies. They chatted and ran away. And the vacuum remained. There are no heroes, no personalities that could be compared to the younger generation. There is nothing to strive for, nothing to build. Although words about construction sound commendable, there is not even a model of what is being built. Maybe a five-story building, or maybe a chicken coop.

Only someone who gives the Ukrainians the Nazi idea will be able to turn over the trough of sewage, proudly called the "state". Only the political force, which, having come to control this so far inverted trough, will start not to harass everyone and everything, but to cast real heroes out of the shining bronze, will bring the country out of a dead end and the nation out of stupor. We seem to have lost one generation. But for the sake of those who will still be born here - GIVE UKRAINE NAZISM!"

Well, Nazis and Ukraine is quite a strange topic for sure!
 
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bubblesort

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I am catching up on Eurovision news before the show starts in a few hours, and I just noticed on a popular eurovision betting site, Ukraine is the overwhelming odds on favorite to win.



That seems a little weird, given the song they submitted. I mean, I want to see them do well, obviously. Nobody wants to see them humiliated like the UK was last year (this year's UK entry looks pretty rough, too), but I don't think this song is good enough to get to the finals.

If you are American, here's why this is crazy: The winner of Eurovision has to host the contest the following year. Sometimes countries send joke songs just because they don't want to risk having to host it the next year (Ireland's Dustin the Turkey entry back in 2008 is a great example of this). Anyway, point is... if Ukraine wins, then Ukraine will have to host Eurovision in a war zone. It would be like the old monty python sketch:


I'm thinking people won't vote for Ukraine, even if they want to, because of this. I can only imagine the diplomacy involved if Ukraine did win. "President Putin... could we maybe... just have a little teeny tiny cease fire, in this one little town? It's for a singing show, and it would mean so much to the children... yes, yes... it's the same show we banned you from attending... but I mean... you wouldn't hold that against us, would you? ... hello? ... hello?"

Every entry would be the 1812 Overture, with javelins instead of canon! LOL
 

Sid

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No doubt, the winner of the song contest will be Ukraine already as predicted
In fact, the crappier the Ukraine's song is this year, the better.
European voters will show their middle fingers to Russia.

One of the other countries will organize the next contest on behalf of Ukraine if they win.
That happened in the past already, that a country won and could not afford to organize the next show.
The winning country has the right to organize the next edition, not the obligation.
 
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Plurabelle Laszlo

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And on top of what Sid said, Ukraine already did very well last year with an equally weird folk/techno mix
they placed fifth in total, in the public vote they even placed second. A big part of the Eurovision audience loves quirky and unusual tunes (the only reason why I love to watch it, too). I liked last year's entry better, but I am very sure they will win.
 

Aribeth Zelin

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And on top of what Sid said, Ukraine already did very well last year with an equally weird folk/techno mix
they placed fifth in total, in the public vote they even placed second. A big part of the Eurovision audience loves quirky and unusual tunes (the only reason why I love to watch it, too). I liked last year's entry better, but I am very sure they will win.
Sadly, while I've finished my first tier of Ukrainian on duolingo, I'm am still only an egg, so I can't figure out what they are singing about, but I think its a cool sounding song, and fun mix of sort of steampunk and cyberpunk aesthetics
 

Plurabelle Laszlo

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Sadly, while I've finished my first tier of Ukrainian on duolingo, I'm am still only an egg, so I can't figure out what they are singing about, but I think its a cool sounding song, and fun mix of sort of steampunk and cyberpunk aesthetics
You can activate English subtitles on youtube :) The song is heavily inspired by a traditional folklore song that is associated with an ancient spring ritual, about the celebration of nature and a new beginning. 'Shum' means noise, but afaik is also the name of a pagan forest god or spirit. The singer performs traditional folklore, too, with that special singing technique called 'white voice'. And - this woman can look so fiercely into the camera that it's possible she can eat your soul when you look too closely. I am a bit in love.
 
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Aribeth Zelin

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You can activate English subtitles on youtube :) The song is heavily inspired by a traditional folklore song that is associated with an ancient spring ritual, about the celebration of nature and a new beginning. 'Shum' means noise, but afaik is also the name of a pagan forest god or spirit. The singer performs traditional folklore, too, with that special singing technique called 'white voice'. And - this woman can look so fiercely into the camera that it's possible she can eat your soul when you look too closely. I am a bit in love.
I enjoyed the music then spent a lot of time wondering if they are still alive and well - they are so talented.

And yes, after the first time i got to see Eurovision [that I remember, my mom says we watched it when I was little and we lived in Frankfurt, then Munich - but that was well, almost 50 years ago.

And yes, I have been supplimenting my language journey watching faery tales in Ukrainian, but with subtitles because.... I still need them a bit.
 

Plurabelle Laszlo

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I enjoyed the music then spent a lot of time wondering if they are still alive and well - they are so talented.
Lately I spent a lot of time looking up Ukrainian bands (and also Russian dissident bands), trying to give a tiny bit of support by giving youtube likes and spotify playtime, and I was wondering the same. Go_A is currently touring Europe, so fortunately they all seem to be alive. The singer, Katryna Pavlenko, did an awesome cover version of Lennon's 'Imagine' as opener of an Italian football match. I read that one member of this year's eurovision contestants, Kalush Orchestra, can't perform because he joined the territorial defence of Kyiv, and all the male band members are on temporary leave only and might get called to the frontlines after their tour/contest.
 
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Aribeth Zelin

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Lately I spent a lot of time looking up Ukrainian bands (and also Russian dissident bands), trying to give a tiny bit of support by giving youtube likes and spotify playtime, and I was wondering the same. Go_A is currently touring Europe, so fortunately they all seem to be alive. The singer, Katryna Pavlenko, did an awesome cover version of Lennon's 'Imagine' as opener of an Italian football match. I read that one member of this year's eurovision contestants, Kalush Orchestra, can't perform because he joined the territorial defence of Kyiv, and all the male band members are on temporary leave only and might get called to the frontlines after their tour/contest.
Yeah. Probably because its good PR to have them out as long as they can be spared.

And also read that the lead singer of Pussy Riot managed to escape Russia.
 

Aribeth Zelin

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And I almost feel like I'm channeling my polish great-grandfather because I've got a strong 'Bring it' reaction. Knowing so little because my mom didn't really know that side of her family, research shows he came over from Lodz right after they tried to throw off Russian rule - he was 18.