The Russia-Ukraine War has begun

WeFlossDaily

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On a more important note, though: Fuck, ya. Ukraine is destroying tons of shit in russia. If it's burning in russia, I love it. I don't think the purpose of destroying this stuff is to try to get russia to agree to a fake peace deal, though. I believe the AFU is just going to keeping pounding and beating on russia's ability to make vehicles, use planes, and fight a war in general. Everything they destroy makes it that much harder for russia to take the next empty field or leveled city. The russian economy is eating itself from the inside out. russian soldiers are demotivated, poorly trained, and have no idea what they are fighting for. Ukrainian soliders remain highly motivated and the population supports their continual efforts to defend and reclaim their land.
 

Bartholomew Gallacher

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Your viewepoint is anti-Ukrainian and promotes kremlin talking points and russian goals. You do not appear to understand why Ukrainians are willing to fight this war or why it matters.
You know where I heared this type of argument before? Israel. Any critic, regardless about what it is, directed at the state of Israel is automatically today discarded as antisemitism by them. You are just using their playbook, if you are not for us, you are automatically against us. Sadly for you reality rarely works in that kind of way.

I am not anti Ukrainian nor pro Russian. You are just too dumb to recognize that. In fact if Ukraine could be back in the area of pre 2014 this would be great, but this is not going to happen anytime soon. You've got to keep a realistic view on things, which you obviously don't have.

About your nuclear arms dreams, which also your president once mentioned: this was meant as a wakeup call, nothing else. Your president isn't dumb, he knows if he would start efforts in that direction it would mean an escalation we have not witnessed in the conflict until today. More importantly though it contains the risk of the West cutting off all support at once if such a program would be started. Which is why he very shortly after withdrew from this ambition.

Ukraine is totally capable of doing so, but not overnight. It would take few years probably, and also the locations of centrifuges and such would be hard to keep secret all over that time.
 
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Bartholomew Gallacher

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A tactical analysis of the most recent events in Ukraine war done by the Austrian Army. Spoken language is English.

 
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Casey Pelous

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... I am not anti Ukrainian nor pro Russian. ...
I don't think there's a single, solitary soul on this board who is even vaguely pro-Russian. Hell, I'm probably one of the closest, just because I've been there a few times and have approximately ten milliliters of empathy for the folks there, and I'd still like to see Zelensky's army march at least to Kazan and preferrably across Siberia to Vladivostok.

Apparently, though, we are insufficiently pure in our partisanship. If only we were better fanboys and fangirls, the tide would turn, the clouds would part, Putin would evaporate into a sulfurous cloud, and Ukraine would emerge triumphant.

Come on, guys; you're letting the team down. Froth more. :rolleyes:

 

WeFlossDaily

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You know where I heared this type of argument before? Israel.
I'm talking about Ukraine.
Any critic, regardless about what it is, directed at the state of Israel is automatically today discarded as antisemitism by them. You are just using their playbook, if you are not for us, you are automatically against us. Sadly for you reality rarely works in that kind of way.
Your perspective on the russo-Ukraine war promotes Ukrainian capitulation to russia and neutrality on part of the West. Perhaps you should address that instead of trying to dismiss via weak comparisons.
I am not anti Ukrainian nor pro Russian.
Your dogma is firmly in the camp of the russians. Perhaps you are just repeating what your government says. Perhaps in comparison to other people in your daily life you do radically support Ukraine. I take issue with the general position of the German people on this conflict. I've lived there. I have family born there and from there. My criticisms against the German perspective are harsh. I have mean things to say about the general perspectives of people living in many countries, though. No need to be so sensitive about it.
You are just too dumb to recognize that.
Of course. Clearly because I disagree with your perspective and find it repulsive, I must be some kind of smooth-brained moron.
In fact if Ukraine could be back in the area of pre 2014 this would be great, but this is not going to happen anytime soon.
russia has neither the troops, resources, munitions, or equipment to fully occupy all of the Ukrainian oblasts they seek to illegally annex. They are also free to leave Ukraine whenever they so choose. The AFU is struggling to push the russians out because countries like American, France, Germany, and Britain provide weapons at the speed of a drip-feed and constantly try to avoid trying to piss off russia. The AFU is struggling to push the russian back in many areas because of this. It is not the fault of the Ukrainian soldiers fighting for the freedom of their state. They are doing the best that they can within the means and rules and with the help of others. In order for "anytime soon" to become a reality, Ukraine's so-called allies need to seriously step it up. "Anytime soon" can come around anytime Ukraine's allies want it to. And it might happen at any moment, anyway. The ussr collapsed rather quickly. russia will likely collapse in an instant when the time comes. And it could come at any moment. Their ecomony is weak and eating itself to prolong the their war of choice.
You've got to keep a realistic view on things, which you obviously don't have.
I don't think Ukraine should be forced to negotiate for their land in hopes of a fake peace deal, nor do I believe in standing idly by while others suffer. There is no point in the exsistence of demoncracy if democratic countries are not willing to aid and help each other. It's not that my viewpoint in not realalistic, it's that you have been indoctronated into believing exactly what the russians want you do while they continue waging their genocidal war. russia doesn't want peace. They seek to regain their old soviet empire and will not stop until they either collapse or have extented their boarder all the way back to Berlin and rebuilt the wall.
About your nuclear arms dreams, which also your president once mentioned: this was meant as a wakeup call, nothing else. Your president isn't dumb, he knows if he would start efforts in that direction it would mean an escalation we have not witnessed in the conflict until today. More importantly though it contains the risk of the West cutting off all support at once if such a program would be started. Which is why he very shortly after withdrew from this ambition
Ukraine isn't a signatory on any sort of agreement pertaining to the proliferation of nuclear weapons. There are also one of very few countries who could produce a nuclear weapon without importing any sort of help or material. Striking moscow and st peterburg is absolutely not out of the question. And think about it. Imagine you were putin and I was the president of Ukraine. Would you be willing to risk it. Ukraine hits what they want and russia is nearly powerles to stop it. If Ukraine can't win, it's entirely possibly that they can make it so the russians can't either. All the more reason to help Ukraine. Ukraine's allies should not be forcing Ukrainian leadership to consider such drastic measures. But they are. Because many of them still do not understand.
Ukraine is totally capable of doing so, but not overnight. It would take few years probably, and also the locations of centrifuges and such would be hard to keep secret all over that time.
I agree with this last bit. Ukraine is completey capable of doing this. But I think they could do this much faster than most people would think. I don't think they would have any trouble hiding it.
 

WeFlossDaily

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And of course, bait is always going to be bait. I will admit that Bart does at least have an argument and viewpoint. I'll give him that, even if I don't like it.
 
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Bartholomew Gallacher

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I'm talking about Ukraine.
Yes, but you have copied the way Israel reacts to critics: everybody doubting what you are saying about Ukraine's status quo automatically in your world is pro-Russian. You cannot bare the possibility that people have other opinions in between.

Your perspective on the russo-Ukraine war promotes Ukrainian capitulation to russia and neutrality on part of the West. Perhaps you should address that instead of trying to dismiss via weak comparisons.
Why should I change that? I do get that you do not tolerate any opinion which is not so much in favor for the outcomings. However this is my opinion, and unless proven otherwise I will stick with it, I will for sure not change it because you are just too simple minded to get the differences.

Ukraine isn't a signatory on any sort of agreement pertaining to the proliferation of nuclear weapons. There are also one of very few countries who could produce a nuclear weapon without importing any sort of help or material. Striking moscow and st peterburg is absolutely not out of the question. And think about it. Imagine
Do your research before embarassing yourself, this is Article II of the NPT:

"Each non-nuclear-weapon State Party to the Treaty undertakes not to receive the transfer from any transferor whatsoever of nuclear weapons or other nuclear explosive devices or of control over such weapons or explosive devices directly, or indirectly; not to manufacture or otherwise acquire nuclear weapons or other nuclear explosive devices; and not to seek or receive any assistance in the manufacture of nuclear weapons or other nuclear explosive devices."

Ukraine agreed to this agreement due to the Budapest Memorandum in 1994. So you lied about that.
 
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Argent Stonecutter

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You know where I heared this type of argument before? Israel. Any critic, regardless about what it is, directed at the state of Israel is automatically today discarded as antisemitism by them. You are just using their playbook, if you are not for us, you are automatically against us. Sadly for you reality rarely works in that kind of way.
You didn't just go there. Holy fuck.
 

Bartholomew Gallacher

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White House Officials do claim that the Russian losses due to operation Spiderweb are lower in numbers than Ukraine is telling.

According to the officials Ukraine has struck 20 military aircraft, and destroyed 10 of them, while Ukraine claims to have struck more than 40 aircraft.

 

Casey Pelous

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The US White House, where the King of Dummassistan lives surrounded by loyal minions who dare not speak Unacceptable Things if they Know What's Good for Them?

Who cares what they say?
 

GoblinCampFollower

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The US White House, where the King of Dummassistan lives surrounded by loyal minions who dare not speak Unacceptable Things if they Know What's Good for Them?

Who cares what they say?
Agreed, Trump still seems to want to appease Putin, which is disgusting. It's very likely only Russia knows the exact number and obviously everyone involved directly has their own bias. Russia has an incentive to pretend it wasn't a big deal, and Ukraine has an incentive to exaggerate. It was still a big success for Ukraine even if the likely downplayed numbers are accurate.

I suspect a lot of aircraft were at least damaged, and it likely would take more time to even know how many are repairable versus just taken out.
 

GoblinCampFollower

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I have a strong love/hate relationship with Russian officials and apologists driving themselves insane pretending Russia bares no blame for their invasion but Ukraine would be at fault for WWIII because they aren't just rolling over for them like good victims.

Obviously I mean "love" in an ironic sense.
 

Innula Zenovka

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Link to Guardian article

Fiona Hill, from County Durham, became the White House’s chief Russia adviser during Donald Trump’s first term and contributed to the British government’s strategy. She made the remarks in an interview with the Guardian.


“We’re in pretty big trouble,” Hill said, describing the UK’s geopolitical situation as caught between “the rock” of Vladimir Putin’s Russia and “the hard place” of Donald Trump’s increasingly unpredictable US.

Hill, 59, is perhaps the best known of the reviewers appointed by Labour, alongside Lord Robertson, a former Nato secretary general, and the retired general Sir Richard Barrons. She said she was happy to take on the role because it was “such a major pivot point in global affairs”. She remains a dual national after living in the US for more than 30 years.
 
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