The Israeli Goverment Has Become The Monster

[Ellie]

Bartholomew Gallacher, "Both sides are lying. And while there are no beheaded babies it does not change the fact that enough people were indeed killed by Hamas at 07/10/2023, and that they've captured 253 hostages as well."

The 'ol both sides' argument employed by Netanyahu, Rump, & other criminals!

Of course killing civilians is always unacceptable. It's murder. A war crime. I can condem Hamas for killing Israeli civilians on 7 Oct & taking the hostages still held in Gaza.

But to express no concern over the 33,000 or so Palestinians killed, and 76,664 wounded?

https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/33899-palestinians-killed-israels-gaza-offensive-since-oct-7-health-ministry-2024-04-17/

Or the 4,764 Palestinians held in detention or prison?

https://www.btselem.org/statistics/detainees_and_prisoners

As for trust and agreements, there can be none. Israel's stance is made plain by its govt. and leaders, past & present. And opposed by increasing numbers of its own citizens.

David Ben-Gurion (First Israeli Prime Minister): “If I were an Arab leader, I would never sign an agreement with Israel. It is normal; we have taken their country. It is true God promised it to us, but how could that interest them? Our God is not theirs. There has been Anti-Semitism, the Nazis, Hitler, Auschwitz, but was that their fault? They see but one thing: we have come and we have stolen their country. Why would they accept that?”

“We must do everything to insure they (the Palestinians) never do return.”

Ben-Gurion’s Notorious Quotes: Their Polemical Uses & Abuses

While news reports are slowly emerging showing the IDF isn't all choirboys and religious nuts

https://edition.cnn.com/2024/04/24/middleeast/un-calls-for-investigation-gaza-mass-graves-mime-intl/index.html

Thing is, with all the technology now available to the man in the street, even many of the impoverishished & disenfranchised, damming evidence has and will continue to emerge, much as it did concerning US police violence, and the Abu Ghraib abuses.

 

[Bartholomew Gallacher]

Ellie: so you want to start pointing fingers at each other, yes? Where's for example your concern about all the Israelian deaths the rockets from Gaza strip fired at Israel caused since 2001? Or death toll during the Intifadas? This really leads to nowhere.

What we've got here is a vicious cycle of violence going on for decades, and both sides have commited enough crimes on their own that they can point fingers at each other for years, and will not come to a solution at all, because by just reciting history you are not doing anything to change the future. It will also not change their totally different views on the matter, and to get to the starting point both sides need to question their own founding myths.

And if there can be no trust there will never be peace in the region. To achieve a long standing peace both sides need to talk to each other again and trust to a certain degree. Netanyahu's stance is here a problem as is the stance of Hamas. Having in your founding charter that you want to disband a state does not create trust. The leaks which clearly showed that Hamas believed it could be successful and already divided Israel into certain regions ruled by their leading personnal shows that as well. Hamas still having hostages is anything but creating trust.

So I disagree; trust is a necessity and possible, if all involved players are working in earnest on it and change it can be achieved. The diplomatic progress even made with KSA is a clear indicator for that. It happened in the past history, it can happen again.

 

[Soen Eber]

One thing not considered is that a large part of Netanyahu's support comes from Israelis who were expelled from Arab countries, and I find it "curious" that those who survived / escaped the gas ovens and death camps in Europe were more willing to work with the Arabs than those who have experienced Arab "hospitality".

Both sides have never missed an opportunity to miss an opportunity, and only serve as an example of "doing it wrong". Perhaps this is an unintended good, as a visible example.

Netanyahu is an evil idiot, but there is zero trust on both sides. History plays itself out again, where the other side either dies, is enslaved, or goes into exile. No one in power is interested in "doing the math" and understanding long-term consequences of present-day actions.

 

[Ellie]

A revealing read

Diary: An Inventory of Rejections — Insaniyyat | Society of Palestinian Anthropologists

 

[Bartholomew Gallacher]

I've watched an old discussion round from 2009, at which Peter Scholl-Latour participated. The topic was the crisis, of course, and how to resolve it. Back then Ehud Olmert was in power, but it was alreay quite clear that within the next election Netanyahu will become the new prime minister.

PSL lived from 1924 to 2014, and was a war journalist. He had to flee from Germany to France in his youth, therefore also had the French citizenship. He often traveled to the middle east, and also spoke Arabic. He was litereally everywhere: Vietnam, Cambodia, Afghanistan, Lebanon, Israel, East Timor etc. and talked to the actors. He's been in Israel in 1951, with the IDF in Beirut and during the wars, with Jewish settlers when the Gaza strip was handed over to the Palestines, talked in Paris to Khomenei and so on. So in short a vita to die for, with lots of contacts and due to travels tons of personal experience being there.

And he also dared always to tell unpopular opinions. When the invasion of Afghanistan by the West was started, he already declared it as failed.

PSL had some very interesting things to say about the stuff back then, namely:

1. He considered how Gaza strip was handed over to the Palestines as a big mistake. When it was handed over, he was there and many jewish settlers back then were ready to fight for it. The mistake made in his opinion was that there were never talks between Israel and the Palestines of handing it over; Israel just decided to abandon it and did so. He thinks this was a major missed opportunity to talk to each other and netogiate stuff.
2. He clearly told that Gaza strip living behind a wall is a major security problem for Israel in the long term, since the people behind it have no freedom, no jobs and no perspective in life. As he put it: it's an area you cannot live in, and due to being a prison people are getting crazy. People are being born there, living their hole lifes and being 40 never left it once.
3. He also was an opponent of Jewish settlements in the west bank. In his eyes this really undermines the possibility of a Palestine state big time, because where should this state be? In his eyes there is no room left for a Palestine state there. He told even if a Jewish government would decide to give it back, the over 250.000 settlers there will refuse to go away.
4. He also stated that Israel put itself into a hole, because if they would abandon some occupied areas like in southern Israel or Lebanon, this would always be viewed as weakness by its opponents instead of willingness for peace. Olmert was too soft for him, in his eyes only a hardline prime minister could make such concessions without Israel being viewed as weak. He considered Netanyahu of being capable to do that.
5. He also criticised that too many people at both sides are unable or unwilling to try understanding the other's point of view. He considered this a must, because only if you do understand the others POV you do understand their motivations, and can act accordingly. For example Israel being unable to understand the motivation of Hezbollah was in his eyes the reason for the events of 2006.
6. Back then he also critised the cherry picking of Israel only talking to Abbas instead of Hamas regarding Gaza given the fact that Hamas was the elected government by the Palestines.

And about the hope for an easy solution he quoted Charles de Gaulle as young officer: "I traveled into the complicated orient with simple ideas."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Scholl-Latour

 

[Innula Zenovka]

An important clarification here -- the International Court of Justice's finding that South Africa's case accusing Israel of genocide was "plausible" doesn't mean what it seems to mean.

Top judge corrects media

International court did not decide that claim of genocide in Gaza was plausible

rozenberg.substack.com

Evernote link

In this context, apparently, the term means that there was a prima facie case for the court to hear -- that is, they found that the Palestinians have a right to be protected from genocide, and that South Africa has a right to bring a case on their behalf.

They didn't, however, find that the claim the Palestinians are in fact being subjected to genocide is in itself plausible. The decision was more a technical one about standing, and simply meant the court was prepared to hear the case.

 

[Bartholomew Gallacher]

Israeli settler attacks on Palestines in the Westbank have increased lately by a great magnitude, since Palestines supposedly killed a 14 year old Jew there at 13/04/2024.

According to the UN in 50% of the cases of attacks and landgrab by the Israels these are accompanied by the IDF, but not intervening to prevent the settlers from running havoc.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/apr/22/israel-settlers-violence-against-palestine-west-bank

 

[Innula Zenovka]

 

[Ellie]

Ellie: so you want to start pointing fingers at each other, yes? Where's for example your concern about all the Israelian deaths the rockets from Gaza strip fired at Israel caused since 2001? Or death toll during the Intifadas? This really leads to nowhere.

Did not read where I said,"Of course killing civilians is always unacceptable. It's murder. A war crime. I can condem Hamas for killing Israeli civilians on 7 Oct & taking the hostages still held in Gaza." right above your reply?

While your link https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Palestinian_rocket_attacks_on_Israel_in_2001on rocket attacks on Israel ends many incident reports with the words "No injuries were reported."

Proportion is a key aspect of my understanding what is happening now in Gaza.

I see a vastly stronger & better supported in every way Israeli govt. laying waste to Gaza & committing outrageous human rights abuses against the far, far, weaker, less organized, and in most cases, innocent, Palestinians.

There's now over 34k dead Palestinians and at least1,410 dead Israelis.

Each one is a tragedy; a lost mother, father, spouse, sibling, friend, or coworker, etc, etc. Most were non-combatants.

 

[Bartholomew Gallacher]

Qatar has enough and tells that every time they got close to a hostage deal, both sides sabotage it. This is the first interview ever given by a foreign policy speaker and advisor to Qatar's PM to Israeli press, Dr. Majed Al-Ansari.

"We have always been able to engage in a very open way and engage very sincerely, but right now, what we are seeing is that every time we get close to a deal, every time we find new ideas to present to the table, there is sabotage talking place, and that sabotage is in the form of statements or actions that, of course, impede the message."

From the Israeli side?

"From both sides. And this is why we were hoping that with our help, and with the help of the international community, we could pressure both sides."

Is Hamas interested in a deal?

"We were hoping to see more commitment and more seriousness on both sides. We are, with the help of our international partners, hoping that we can pressure both sides to an agreement, but right now we are seeing from both sides a lot of lack of commitment to the process itself and to the mediation."

https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2024-04-27/ty-article/.premium/every-time-were-close-to-a-deal-both-sides-sabotage-it-top-qatari-official-to-haaretz/0000018f-1f94-d1f3-afcf-3ff5ab730000

 

[Bartholomew Gallacher]

The International Crime Court is expected to issue arrest warrants for Netanyahu and members of his cabinet next week. Without backing from the USA though this will be without consequences, so question is what Biden will do if these warrants manifest.

Is the ICC going to prosecute Benjamin Netanyahu? | The Jerusalem Post

“Where is [US President Joe] Biden? Why is he quiet while Israel will potentially be thrown under the bus?” the source said.

www.jpost.com

 

[Innula Zenovka]

The International Crime Court is expected to issue arrest warrants for Netanyahu and members of his cabinet next week. Without backing from the USA though this will be without consequences, so question is what Biden will do if these warrants manifest.

Is the ICC going to prosecute Benjamin Netanyahu? | The Jerusalem Post

“Where is [US President Joe] Biden? Why is he quiet while Israel will potentially be thrown under the bus?” the source said.

www.jpost.com

Why will it be without consequences if the US -- who aren't a part of the ICC and don't recognise its jurisdiction -- don't back the move? What difference would the backing of the US, or the lack of such support, make to the obligations of either Germany or the UK to execute the warrants, if one of the people named in them arrived in the jurisdiction of either country?

(I wouldn't imagine that Netanyahu or any of the other individuals for whom arrest warrants were to be issued would risk travelling to a jurisdiction where they might be subject to arrest without obtaining some guarantees they'd be protected by diplomatic immunity (or similar) while they were there, but that might be a difficult considering the number of Russians who might expect similar treatment).

 

[Cristiano]

 

[Bartholomew Gallacher]

 

[Cristiano]

Here's hoping the IDF doesn't "accidentally" shoot any more aid workers, or starving Gazan's trying to get food.

 

[Bartholomew Gallacher]

Your daily dose of Bibi's delusions... he's mad about the ICC, obviously.

 

[Ellie]

"Israeli news site Ynet reported on Tuesday that the Israeli military has approved battle plans and is ready to push into Rafah within 72 hours if no deal is finalised."

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/apr/30/netanyahu-vows-to-raid-rafah-with-or-without-hostage-deal

"Israel will invade Rafah "with or without a deal" to release the remaining hostages held captive in Gaza, Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu vowed Tuesday."The idea that we will halt the war before achieving all of its goals is out of the question. We will enter Rafah and we will eliminate the Hamas battalions there — with or without a deal — in order to achieve the total victory," Netanyahu said, according to a statement released by his office."

"A military assault on Rafah would be an unbearable escalation, killing thousands more civilians and forcing hundreds of thousands to flee," said United Nations Secretary-General Guterres on Tuesday. "I appeal for all those with influence over Israel to do everything in their power to prevent it."

https://www.npr.org/2024/04/30/1248276817/israel-invade-gaza-rafah-hostage-deal-netanyahu

More bloodshed coming.

 

[Innula Zenovka]

The International Crime Court is expected to issue arrest warrants for Netanyahu and members of his cabinet next week. Without backing from the USA though this will be without consequences, so question is what Biden will do if these warrants manifest.

Is the ICC going to prosecute Benjamin Netanyahu? | The Jerusalem Post

“Where is [US President Joe] Biden? Why is he quiet while Israel will potentially be thrown under the bus?” the source said.

www.jpost.com

Joshua Rozenberg, one the UK's best legal commentators, finds these reports rather puzzling, though it seems the Israeli government certainly take them seriously.

Israel in the dock

Or so it believes

rozenberg.substack.com

Evernote link

 

[Cristiano]

House passes antisemitism bill as Johnson highlights campus protests

This was not needed as anti-semitism is already illegal. This stifles criticism of Israel. 70 Democrats voted against it, and the ACLU was opposed to it.

 

[Free]

https://www.cnn.com/2024/05/01/politics/house-vote-antisemitism-awareness-act/index.html

This was not needed as anti-semitism is already illegal. This stifles criticism of Israel. 70 Democrats voted against it, and the ACLU was opposed to it.

"We would like to reiterate that we are against that thing we have been claiming to be against for quite some time now. Also, fuck the protestors."