The Internet of Garbage Things

[Soen Eber]

Strange, we let our mobile phone apps, Internet websites and social media harvest and harvest our data. Hardly ever people speak up.
Seems that a dishwasher collects more valuable data than that, because... all of a sudden we tend to draw a line.

Most of that harvesting can't suddenly brick an expensive item we paid real money for.

 

[Rose Karuna]

Strange, we let our mobile phone apps, Internet websites and social media harvest and harvest our data. Hardly ever people speak up.
Seems that a dishwasher collects more valuable data than that, because... all of a sudden we tend to draw a line.

Hopefully people will start drawing the line somewhere. I think a lot of the grumbling started when software decided to become "rentware". That is really annoying, and expensive.

 

[Argent Stonecutter]

I don't care what data it's collecting, I care about the unnecessary denial of service if it can't get online.

 

[Sid]

Hopefully people will start drawing the line somewhere. I think a lot of the grumbling started when software decided to become "rentware". That is really annoying, and expensive.

Yes rentware is annoying.
I canceled my MS Office subscription a few weeks ago and will go back to a simply pay once Office package. They are always on sale somewhere, that makes it cheaper in the end. Same goes with anti virus software.

 

[Sid]

Most of that harvesting can't suddenly brick an expensive item we paid real money for.

Personally I don't think that manufacturers need a WIFI connection to make sure that appliances die when they are around 7-9 years old, if they want to.
Who knows what is coded in all the chips that every appliance has these days, with or without WIFI access.

 

[Essence Lumin]

Personally I don't think that manufacturers need a WIFI connection to make sure that appliances die when they are around 7-9 years old, if they want to.
Who knows what is coded in all the chips that every appliance has these days, with or without WIFI access.

They don't need to do that. All the parts have an expected life. For instance a rubber seal or other part is made to specs that last a certain amount of time.

 

[Dakota Tebaldi]

I don't care what data it's collecting, I care about the unnecessary denial of service if it can't get online.

I care about the data it's collecting!

People even today will still tend to freak out about new encroaching laws or policies that allow the police or other government agencies to directly access and collect people's personal data. They're not always successful in stopping it, but they DO stop it sometimes because they usually react and fight those things so hard, and rightfully so.

But the same people who fight so hard against government threats to private data, give less than a rusty f-word about mass commercial data harvesting. They're not concerned even in the slightest. And because of that, commercial actors now collect SO much personal and private data of SO many kinds...and sell it to literally anyone who wants to buy it, that increasingly nowadays the police and government agencies don't even bother with warrants because they can just buy the data - and there's no way to legally challenge it, because privacy laws only restrict direct collection by the government, and heavily protect companies' rights to collect data and sell it to whomever they like.

Case in point: The "Golden State Killer" was a serial rapist and killer who had dozens of victims in California in the 70's and 80's before just suddenly stopping one day. He was caught suddenly in 2018 through a familial DNA match. They just sent the killer's DNA to GEDmatch, a website that allows people to send in DNA samples to help build a family genealogy database and connect them with far-removed family members. The website, as designed, came back with a list of definite genetic relatives, a major breakthrough that quickly led police to identify the killer. Now I know that sounds like a net beneficial act by the police and yeah, the guy definitely needed to be caught...but normally, police need a court order to collect specific DNA samples, and potential family members of suspects have to want to willingly, voluntarily offer a DNA sample for comparison - there's a whole legal and paperwork process behind it that is designed to protect innocent people whom the police have incorrectly pegged as potential suspects, and their families. But the police were able to end-run and ignore that entire process because the company running this website wasn't bound by any of those restrictions - and police have been running DNA willy-nilly through commercial services like this ever since, completely skipping the normal civil protections in place around police and DNA collection.

 

[Argent Stonecutter]

It's a clothes washer. It's collecting data on how often you wash clothes. It doesn't have a DNA scanner or microphone or even a way to know what detergent you're using.

 

[Soen Eber]

It's a clothes washer. It's collecting data on how often you wash clothes. It doesn't have a DNA scanner or microphone or even a way to know what detergent you're using.

*** ALERT: Your laundry could be cleaner with our proprietary formula. Press "YES" for an annual sudzy contract ***
(continues with each wash)

*** ALERT: Your machine is due for maintenance soon, please contact us to schedule an appointment ***

*** ALERT: Thank you for allowing us to service your machine. Your credit card will be billed $832 ***

*** ALERT: Your maintenance window has closed. Your machine will stop working in 15 days without an inspection ***

*** ALERT: Code 532: Please call for an inspection ***
(multiple calls to other appliance repairs shop reveal they don't know what's wrong, and that any work they perform would both void your warranty and brick your device)

c.f. Google "why is mcdonald's ice cream always down "

 

[Sid]

*** ALERT: Your laundry could be cleaner with our proprietary formula. Press "YES" for an annual sudzy contract ***
(continues with each wash)

*** ALERT: Your machine is due for maintenance soon, please contact us to schedule an appointment ***

*** ALERT: Thank you for allowing us to service your machine. Your credit card will be billed $832 ***

*** ALERT: Your maintenance window has closed. Your machine will stop working in 15 days without an inspection ***

*** ALERT: Code 532: Please call for an inspection ***
(multiple calls to other appliance repairs shop reveal they don't know what's wrong, and that any work they perform would both void your warranty and brick your device)

Do you think that a company with such tactics would survive?
I highly doubt it.

 

[Essence Lumin]

It's a clothes washer. It's collecting data on how often you wash clothes. It doesn't have a DNA scanner or microphone or even a way to know what detergent you're using.

Probably. Seeing how it is on your home network it could be scanning everything there. Knowledgeable people with the right equipment could set up a vlan for it but that would be less than 1% of the population.

 

[Noodles]

Do you use a dishwasherwasher?

I tried, but I would put the dishwasher in it, and it felt like a waste to run it with just one dishwasher, and I can't afford to have 20 dishwashers.

-- ALTERNATE JOKE THAT IS SLIGHTLY OFF COLOR --

Yes, my house has a shower.

 

[Noodles]

*** ALERT: Your laundry could be cleaner with our proprietary formula. Press "YES" for an annual sudzy contract ***
(continues with each wash)

*** ALERT: Your machine is due for maintenance soon, please contact us to schedule an appointment ***

*** ALERT: Thank you for allowing us to service your machine. Your credit card will be billed $832 ***

*** ALERT: Your maintenance window has closed. Your machine will stop working in 15 days without an inspection ***

*** ALERT: Code 532: Please call for an inspection ***
(multiple calls to other appliance repairs shop reveal they don't know what's wrong, and that any work they perform would both void your warranty and brick your device)

c.f. Google "why is mcdonald's ice cream always down "

Yes, this kind of bull shit.

Like how my fridge has a filter light on it for the water line, that comes on every 6 months, exactly. I don't even have a filter installed.

 

[Imnotgoing Sideways]

It's a clothes washer. It's collecting data on how often you wash clothes. It doesn't have a DNA scanner or microphone or even a way to know what detergent you're using.

... yet. =^-^=

 

[Imnotgoing Sideways]

Also, gotta consider the electric bill. A tech Youtuber I watch reflected on the parasitic drain the clock on his microwave oven. Out of curiosity, he hooked it up to a compact power meter. He didn't use it more than 2 or 3 times a week and found it used more energy to run the CLOCK than actually cook food.

Now, think about how much energy these devices are using to maintain a Wifi connection. Especially anything with a 'remote start' feature. That connection is always on 24-7 and it isn't a passive process. Wifi idle states do exist, but "push" updates are more typically polling routines with far shorter intervals.

 

[Noodles]

... yet. =^-^=

WARNING, FOREIGN DNA DETECTED IN WASHER. PLEASE VERIFY ADDITIONAL $6.99 PER MONTH SUBSCRIPTION CHARGE FOR ADDITIONAL HOUSEHOLD MEMBER.

 

[Casey Pelous]

Sid ... while the snooping examples given are pretty funny, and you're right about the minimal amount of information a dishwasher could gather, the real concern is that these Internet of Crap things have repeatedly demonstrated abysmal security and thus have served as gateways into users' "real" networks and computers.

 

[Dakota Tebaldi]

It's a clothes washer. It's collecting data on how often you wash clothes. It doesn't have a DNA scanner or microphone or even a way to know what detergent you're using.

Dishwasher.

And yeah obvious there's only so many kinds of data something like a dishwasher can collect and send. And realistically the only way that data can be used is to shrewdly time the spamming of dish detergent ads and related things.

But honestly, that doesn't matter. Even something like what time of day and how often you wash your dishes and go through a box or bottle of detergent is nobody's business. It's the intrusive harvesting and selling of data in the first place that is THE problem, even if some of that data sometimes happens to be less "sensitive" than other kinds. If you allow yourself to concede the notion that it's okay to collect some kinds of data that way, then at the end of the day you're not resisting, you're just haggling.

 

[Argent Stonecutter]

Unless you never go out in public without a dazzle-camo mask you're just haggling.

 

[Argent Stonecutter]

*** ALERT: Your laundry could be cleaner with our proprietary formula. Press "YES" for an annual sudzy contract ***
(continues with each wash)

*** ALERT: Your machine is due for maintenance soon, please contact us to schedule an appointment ***

*** ALERT: Thank you for allowing us to service your machine. Your credit card will be billed $832 ***

*** ALERT: Your maintenance window has closed. Your machine will stop working in 15 days without an inspection ***

*** ALERT: Code 532: Please call for an inspection ***
(multiple calls to other appliance repairs shop reveal they don't know what's wrong, and that any work they perform would both void your warranty and brick your device)

c.f. Google "why is mcdonald's ice cream always down "

These are all "denial of service" attacks like I'm actually complaining about, not privacy attacks.