RIP the Metaverse

Argent Stonecutter

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Getting in and out of VR is so much more cumbersome and disruptive because you have to remove the entire headset, then reposition yourself when it's put back on; there's no way to multi-task.
Indeed. And even if you have a dedicated 3d room and time to go online away from the world, the world a "metaverse" puts you in is a throwback to an older age.

The whole idea of 3d virtual worlds as a productive environment was torpedoed by the web before the first hardware that could run even desktop 3d worlds got cheap enough for everyone. It was even before multitasking desktop operating systems were common: the only true multitasking home computer was the Amiga - neither Mac or Windows in the '80s were up to running background programs effectively- and it was too niche to have an effect on how people saw computers. Commodore 64 and Atari 800 and Apple II 8-bit descendents were still selling.

Snow Crash was written by someone whose experience of online activity was Compuserve and Teletext, not the web. In Compuserve you had one session doing one thing, and extending that to a 3d metaphor was easy. The Metaverse is a 3d extension of 1980s online services and bulletin board systems and computers where you started up one program at a time and stayed in it until you finished and started up another one. Putting on a headset and going to one place and being there for hours fit into that world.

The late '90s and early '00s, when a desktop metaverse was becoming practical, was dominated by the web and by multitasking window-based systems moving from fringe systems like the Amiga and BeBox to Windows NT and Mac OS X. Nobody would put up with that on their desktop now.
 

Noodles

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I could see maybe holograms working out as an extension of the VR/AR concept, but it would need to be more of a system where it just project people, and I am not sure how that would even be physically possible. Like, we sort of have it now from one angle with some sort of smoke or something to catch a projection, but just straight holograms, not so much.

And it would need to be sans a headset. Maybe with some sort of glasses.

Basically, Hololens in a regular set of glasses.
 

Argent Stonecutter

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Holograms are not projected 3d images like in Star Trek.

And the problem I'm talking about is the "you're in a 3d world" metaphor. It doesn't matter if you're in some kind of magical projection like in Star Trek, or wearing VR glasses or AR glasses or just a desktop view like Second Life. If being in one place means you're not simultaneously in another place the windowed desktop or the web lets you be, the web is a more useful metaphor.
 

Jupiter Rowland

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What I find hilarious is how everyone believes that Zuckerberg invented both the term "metaverse" and the concept of 3-D virtual worlds, but at least the use of the term "metaverse" for existing virtual worlds.

The OpenSim community has probably spoken of a "metaverse" as early as 2008 when the Hypergrid was introduced. The Infinite Metaverse Alliance was founded in 2016 under that name. Grids have been using the term "metaverse" for years. Alternate Metaverse, one of the biggest grids, was launched in late 2019. Metropolis was launched in 2008, its full name was "Metropolis Metaversum" when it shut down in 2022, and it certainly didn't adopt that full name and change its logo accordingly after Zuck's announcement.

The place where "the metaverse" as a concept fails is when it aspires to be larger than that, something that an enormous segment of society uses not just for socializing but for most of their daily-life activities, just because.
And Horizon failed because it was built upon the expectation that billions of people around the world would be able and willing to shell out money for a VR headset from one specific brand that's more expensive than an iPhone, just so that they can access "The Metaverse". Horizon was designed to be only accessible through Meta's own VR headsets. It's like requiring a special Meta PC or mobile phone for over $1,000 just to be able to use Facebook, Instagram and/or WhatsApp.

Also, as already mentioned, Meta couldn't be bothered to check how feasible and convenient it'd be in practice to do all kinds of stuff in full-blown VR with goggles on. They thought they could make Ready Player One early reality with Facebook Meta becoming Gregarious Simulation Systems, the world's biggest corporation, and Horizon being the OASIS, everyone's everywhere, all-purpose VR. They thought they could make it early reality by implying towards the press and the general public that it's going to happen anyway if they say so. They bet billions of dollars on it.

And, much to their surprise, they lost because someone somewhere checked Meta's predictions and advertising claims against reality.

Successful 3-D virtual worlds always work as pancakes on run-of-the-mill computers. If at all, VR has to be optional. This really goes to show that Zuck didn't learn anything from existing worlds.

It's a really hard sell because right now all they have to show you is mostly unimpressive virtual worlds that are the same or worse than what's already been around for the last 15+ years, and you're supposed to believe they're worth your time and attention now because in, like, 20 years or so they're definitely going to be awesome, you'll see.
Another mistake that just about all virtual worlds launched in the 2020s have made is not to offer their aspiring users anything in-world. Their makers assume that it's sufficient to develop the engine, run a world server and give people a frontend of sorts. Beyond that, all they offer is one or multiple islands of barren land painted green with maybe a few cartoonish trees and parcels that are horrendously expensive even in comparison with Second Life. If you're lucky, there's a kind of welcome building somewhere. Outside, however, there's nothing but boredom. Or maybe the odd luxury mansion or office block which some stinking rich paying customer had professional 3-D designers build.

Virtual worlds that require a) shitloads of money to buy land, b) professional-level 3-D design skills to build something to put on your land and c) corporate-run Web space to host your build, all just to have something in the landscape, are DOA.

Virtual worlds that can be built and decorated by their residents fairly easily and cheaply, i.e. not requiring them to be Nike or a Kardashian, are the ones that really become and stay popular because they are and stay interesting. They keep changing all the time, giving you new places to visit and explore.

If virtual world operators decide to "deal with that later" and focus on advertising and money-making first, there won't be a "later".

For comparison: When Second Life was opened to the public in 2003, it already offered a lot to see and do, not built by the Lindens, but by early residents. And yet, it let residents build in-world almost whatever they wanted to build. Building cost increasing amounts of money, but it's still possible, and it's what has kept Second Life interesting for two decades.

New OpenSim grids don't necessarily have that much to offer right away. But the obstacles for building are much much lower than in Second Life even, partly because land is dirt-cheap and available practically infinitely, partly because most of the time your land is all you'll ever have to pay for. OpenSim is where one individual can own (and offer for rent) two thirds of Second Life's entire land area.

The same as said above goes for avatars. Advertise your platform all you want. But if users can only choose between four operator-issued, unmodifiable standard avatars because even importing complete avatars from e.g. Ready Player Me isn't high up enough on the to-do list, and the idea of modular Barbie doll avatars à la Second Life/OpenSim has never even occurred to the devs and meanwhile become technically impossible to implement, then you won't be able to keep people interested for long.

Not only do Second Life and OpenSim avatars look better than those in more recent virtual worlds, but they can be modified to your heart's content in many many details. All by in-world means instead of generating all-new complete, monolithic, one-chunk avatars on 3rd-party platforms and then having to convert and adapt them to whatever virtual world you use with 4th-party tools.

Another advantage of pancake worlds: They don't have to be designed to always, even with huge crowds of avatars around you in a dense forest or a museum full of sculptures or a replica of the Cologne Cathedral or something, reach 60fps on passively-cooled, fanless mobile hardware running on rechargeable batteries while connected through wi-fi.

Like the latest female trends with elephant sized asses and wasp waists at the same time and lips at least three fingers thick?
Many actually expect your avatar to look like this. If it doesn't, you must clearly be too dumb to use Second Life or OpenSim. I'll elaborate on that in a separate thread later.
 
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Argent Stonecutter

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The OpenSim community has probably spoken of a "metaverse" as early as 2008 when the Hypergrid was introduced.
That's way too late.

Second Life itself was explicitly and openly designed as an implementation of Stephenson's concept of the Metaverse from the get go. Philip made the econnection between Second Life and Snow Crash publicly when it opened in 2003. Second Life's unified mainland was basically the unified spacially-oriented Metaverse as a flat plane instead of a sphere.

And the Metaverse itself was basically The Other Plane from True Names or the Interface from Dr Adder filtered through the vision of someone who's online experience was basically Compuserve and the BBS era... published just in time for the Web to start becoming publicly accessible and popular and blow the whole "you are in your avatar in this particular space like you're logged into a BBS on a text terminal except in glitzy 3d" out of the water.

We need to start picking ideas from better and more forward-looking cyberthingy SF writers like Vernor Vinge and David Brin and Linda Nagata.

Metaverse-like online spaces are still awesome for hanging out and chatting and doing high-intensity high-attention stuff like playing games, but the web and web based application is still way more useful for anything beyond entertainment.
 

Jupiter Rowland

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That's way too late.

Second Life itself was explicitly and openly designed as an implementation of Stephenson's concept of the Metaverse from the get go. Philip made the econnection between Second Life and Snow Crash publicly when it opened in 2003. Second Life's unified mainland was basically the unified spacially-oriented Metaverse as a flat plane instead of a sphere.
Did Second Life constantly refer to itself as a metaverse in the time between its opening and OpenSim's Hypergrid launch? Did the SL community talk, "Metaverse this, metaverse that," all the time WRT Second Life during that timespan?

Mind you, OpenSim itself was launched in 2007. What's seen as the true "metaverse creation event" was the launch of the Hypergrid when OpenSim grids, previously each being its own isolated walled garden, became connected to one another in such a way that you could have your avatar on one grid and visit other grids with the self-same avatar. And you still can, by the way.

So it wasn't OpenSim itself that was considered a metaverse. OpenSim is only a server application. It wasn't the individual grids that were considered metaverses, although some refer to themselves as metaverses. It was the "universe of independent, interconnected virtual worlds" known as the Hypergrid that was talked about as {a|the} metaverse.

Another concept of "the Metaverse" from before Zuck's announcement was the sum of all virtual worlds. Second Life, ActiveWorlds, There, Furcadia, thousands of OpenSim grids, Roblox, Fortnite, VRchat etc., regardless of whether they're interconnected or not.
 
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Free

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Did Second Life constantly refer to itself as a metaverse in the time between its opening and OpenSim's Hypergrid launch? Did the SL community talk, "Metaverse this, metaverse that," all the time WRT Second Life during that timespan?
Hey, we've had problems being referred to as a "game".
 

Sid

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Metaverse is there where Zuckerberg and Co sees the money.

SL is just a virtual world. And that is more than enough.
 
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CronoCloud Creeggan

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Hey, we've had problems being referred to as a "game".
/me does the thing:

Second Life is not a game. It is a multi-user, virtual environment. It doesn't have points or scores. It doesn't have winners or losers.

(waits for the proper response)
 

Argent Stonecutter

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Did Second Life constantly refer to itself as a metaverse in the time between its opening and OpenSim's Hypergrid launch? Did the SL community talk, "Metaverse this, metaverse that," all the time WRT Second Life during that timespan?
Why does that have anything to do with it?

Also, the Metaverse in Snow Crash wasn't a federation of independent grids. It was a single unified world operated by the former US government. The whole "the metaverse is a grid blah blah blah" stuff is just a marketing thing.

Nearly 30 years later and people still can't agree on the definition of metaverse.
It's a fictional construct in a novel about the future of the online world of the '80s. Anything that calls back to Snow Crash can legitimately call itself the metaverse, and Second Life absolutely qualifies... more than most, given it was explicitly designed to mirror the virtual world of Snow Crash.
 
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WolfEyes

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It's a fictional construct in a novel about the future of the online world of the '80s. Anything that calls back to Snow Crash can legitimately call itself the metaverse, and Second Life absolutely qualifies... more than most, given it was explicitly designed to mirror the virtual world of Snow Crash.
You and I know that. Most people here know that. The public at large does not.
 
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Noodles

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/me does the thing:

Second Life is not a game. It is a multi-user, virtual environment. It doesn't have points or scores. It doesn't have winners or losers.

(waits for the proper response)
I have seriously considered plopping an Avatar at an info hub, with a body sized, clickable, invisiprim and an explanation point over the head, then when people click it, it sends them a message about gathering lion pelts or weapons from defeated orcs.
 

Argent Stonecutter

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There was a period where everyone was wearing exclamation point clickies like that.
 

Kamilah Hauptmann

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I have seriously considered plopping an Avatar at an info hub, with a body sized, clickable, invisiprim and an explanation point over the head, then when people click it, it sends them a message about gathering lion pelts or weapons from defeated orcs.
Give em a cage gun and a landmark to random sandbox.