Olympics

Dakota Tebaldi

Well-known member
VVO Supporter 🍦🎈👾❤
Joined
Sep 19, 2018
Messages
9,781
Location
Ohio
Joined SLU
02-22-2008
SLU Posts
16791
The triathlon is so nuts. This event is next-level punishing. The medalists, and easily the next five or so competitors who manage to almost keep up with them, these guys are just relentless machines during the race but they have worked themselves so hard that when they cross the finish line and stop, within 30 seconds or so they can't even stand up anymore...or, y'know, like move any part of their body at all.

I haven't watched the end of the actual running marathon events so maybe it's the same there, but I'm not aware of any other event at the Olympics that requires paramedics to wheelchair the winners away from the finish line.

Norway got the gold by the way; GB silver and NZ bronze.
 
  • 1Like
Reactions: bubblesort

Dakota Tebaldi

Well-known member
VVO Supporter 🍦🎈👾❤
Joined
Sep 19, 2018
Messages
9,781
Location
Ohio
Joined SLU
02-22-2008
SLU Posts
16791
Olympic sports come and go. And I think that is okay. Keeps things fresh and crisp.
Yeah the IOC definitely wants to add "newer" sports. Part of the reason that this year there's 33 of them, lol.

The IOC sets new rules for how sports are chosen every so often and they'll probably change in the future, too. But for now, here's the current matrix:

Every Summer Olympics will have 25 "core" Olympic sports:

Aquatics
Archery
Athletics aka Track and Field
Badminton
Basketball
Boxing
Canoe/Kayak
Cycling
Equestrian
Fencing
Field Hockey
Football aka Soccer
Gymnastics
Handball
Judo
Modern Pentathlon
Rowing
Sailing
Shooting
Table Tennis
Taekwondo
Tennis
Triathlon
Volleyball
Weightlifting

PLUS 3 non-permanent sports, selected by the IOC for each Games. The 3 non-permanent sports selected for 2020 Tokyo and 2024 Paris were

Golf
Rugby Sevens
Wrestling (wrestling used to be a "core" Olympic sport but was removed in 2013, though obvs it is still eligible as a non-permanent sport)

PLUS up to five "local-interest" sports, chosen by the host nation of each Games and subject to approval by the IOC. Japan's choices for 2020 Tokyo were

Baseball/Softball
Surfing
Karate
Skateboarding
Sport Climbing

France chose four sports for 2024 Paris:

Surfing
Skateboarding
Sport Climbing
Breaking

France was actively mulling proposing esports as a new event, but after discussions the IOC ultimately decided it would not consider esports for inclusion.
 
Last edited:
  • 1Thanks
Reactions: Govi

Dakota Tebaldi

Well-known member
VVO Supporter 🍦🎈👾❤
Joined
Sep 19, 2018
Messages
9,781
Location
Ohio
Joined SLU
02-22-2008
SLU Posts
16791
Just been announced that a few events are being postponed on Tuesday - what I've heard so far in particular are Archery and Rowing - due to Subtropical Storm Nepartak which is expected to arrive in the area of Tokyo on that day. Nepartak will not become a tropical system, and is forecast to weaken to at least subtropical-depression strength if not dissipate completely before landfall; but even a remnant low will mean a gusty breeze and some choppy water conditions, not really good for arrows or racing boats.

Weirdly, western media is incorrectly calling this storm a typhoon, and talking as if there's a possibility of flooding rains and damaging winds destroying Olympic venues and such - which is frankly silly.
 

Dakota Tebaldi

Well-known member
VVO Supporter 🍦🎈👾❤
Joined
Sep 19, 2018
Messages
9,781
Location
Ohio
Joined SLU
02-22-2008
SLU Posts
16791
USA got a few golds today. Lee Kiefer is the first American medalist of any kind in women's foil; and at the shooting ranges USA got golds in men's and women's skeet, and also men's 10m air rifle.

You might think Americans doing well at shooting sports is kind of a given; but for instance in 2016, the only shooting medals USA got were a gold in women's 10m air rifle, and bronzes in women's trap and women's skeet. No American male made it through the qualification round in any shooting event in Rio.

Also picked up a couple more medals at the pool. Totals there so far are 2 gold, 3 silver, 3 bronze.
 

Noodles

The sequel will probably be better.
Joined
Sep 20, 2018
Messages
5,983
Location
Illinois
SL Rez
2006
Joined SLU
04-28-2010
SLU Posts
6947
A coworker called about an issue then the conversation came up about the Olympics ratings not being great (work in TV means caring about what people are watching) and it didn't go very deep on the conversation but I kind of agreed about it being pretty meh, out of my personal apathy towards sports.

Then I felt bad later because I discovered that there is basically a big right winger meme going around about how ratings are down because of "woke" at the Olympics or some shit. That's not why I agree that maybe the Olympics are down in the ratings.
 

Sid

Lord of the plywood cubes.
VVO Supporter 🍦🎈👾❤
Joined
Sep 20, 2018
Messages
7,016
For me this Olympics are a nighttime/early morning events. So I haven't seen much live so far.
And watching sports without audience present isn't really fun either. So yeah, my personal ratings for these Olympics are down too.
 

Lexxi

meow
Joined
Sep 26, 2018
Messages
1,333
SL Rez
2007
Joined SLU
12-14-2007
SLU Posts
6381
Random Thoughts:

1) I do not really understand (behind something to talk about and the like) the need to strongly debate whether something is or is not a "sport". If people want to win call a food eating competition, obstacle course racing, or, something even more extreme like "bowling" then so be it.
2) I kind of like how Olympic sports tend to have slightly different rules than the exact same thing played outside the Olympics (like, not sure if this still is a thing, but I've this vague recollection that Olympic ice hockey has less or possibly no fighting, but that might be something I read in a fiction book).


Also: Was this specific bicycle event one that had people start at different times? Or did everyone start at the same time? If everyone started at the same time, well, isn't it kind of on the bicyclist to pay attention to the number of people in front of them (I realize it is different in non-Olympic races where there is this voice in their ear muttering at them)? If people started at different times, well, then that's screwed up (not to let people know if someone was still ahead of them). Was this a race where anyone can grab a bike and start racing, and no one knows how many people are officially in the race?

There's probably some logical reason, other than not being told via voice in ear or hand-held signs, for why the bicyclist didn't know there was a rider still ahead of them.
 
  • 1Thanks
Reactions: Grandma Bates

Dakota Tebaldi

Well-known member
VVO Supporter 🍦🎈👾❤
Joined
Sep 19, 2018
Messages
9,781
Location
Ohio
Joined SLU
02-22-2008
SLU Posts
16791
I'm not 100% sure, but it seems to be the case that Road Cycling in the Olympics is regulated by the UCI, so they could allow radios if they wanted and I couldn't tell you why they don't. Tradition maybe?

On the other hand, it's not exactly a secret that there's no radios in the Olympics so it's not as if any participating rider could not have known this turn of events was at least always a possibility. Keisenhofer's breakaway and subsequent focused digging was so brilliant, but is it really something that's just never happened before, and only now for the first time everyone has suddenly noticed this "problem" that needs to be "fixed"?
 
Joined
Sep 19, 2018
Messages
6,769
Location
NJ suburb of Philadelphia
SL Rez
2003
SLU Posts
4494
Random Thoughts:

1) I do not really understand (behind something to talk about and the like) the need to strongly debate whether something is or is not a "sport". If people want to win call a food eating competition, obstacle course racing, or, something even more extreme like "bowling" then so be it.
Maybe they should be called games, like Second Life.
 
  • 1* Popcorn *
Reactions: Clara D.

Dakota Tebaldi

Well-known member
VVO Supporter 🍦🎈👾❤
Joined
Sep 19, 2018
Messages
9,781
Location
Ohio
Joined SLU
02-22-2008
SLU Posts
16791

ETA: lol this dweeb from the comments



Olympic pistols are designed to be used with one hand, but go on and tell the gold medal winner that she's doing it wrong
 
Last edited:

Dakota Tebaldi

Well-known member
VVO Supporter 🍦🎈👾❤
Joined
Sep 19, 2018
Messages
9,781
Location
Ohio
Joined SLU
02-22-2008
SLU Posts
16791
Carissa Moore wins the US a gold in women's surfing!

My impressions watching sport surfing for the very first time are that....it can be difficult to watch.

The surfers compete in groups of two at a time, and are given anywhere from 20 to 35 minutes, depending on wave conditions, to catch up to a certain number of waves - in this event it looked like there was generally an upper limit of 8 waves, and all but a few unlucky surfers manage to catch that many or close to that many.

Easily half of the waves any given surfer catches end up being busts - either they make a mistake and fall within a second or two or the wave just ends up being lousy and doesn't give them an opportunity to do anything before it breaks completely. With lucky waves...I didn't use a clock or anything but a very good run on a very accommodating wave seemed to last around 12 - 15 seconds on average, give or take.

Put it all together, and we're talking about maybe a little over one cumulative minute of actual surfing time per surfer, per two-competitor round. The entire rest of that 20- to 35-minute round is spent just watching them bobbing in the water waiting for a good wave. It's....kinda tough, yo.

Now, in fairness this could easily be because this beach in Japan was just not really the best for surfing, either period or as a result of unfortunate weather and sea conditions or whatever. I mean, they weren't exactly Hawaii Five-0 waves. But, meh. As a casual spectator, surfing hasn't really grabbed me.
 

Dakota Tebaldi

Well-known member
VVO Supporter 🍦🎈👾❤
Joined
Sep 19, 2018
Messages
9,781
Location
Ohio
Joined SLU
02-22-2008
SLU Posts
16791

Sid

Lord of the plywood cubes.
VVO Supporter 🍦🎈👾❤
Joined
Sep 20, 2018
Messages
7,016
I'm not 100% sure, but it seems to be the case that Road Cycling in the Olympics is regulated by the UCI, so they could allow radios if they wanted and I couldn't tell you why they don't. Tradition maybe?

On the other hand, it's not exactly a secret that there's no radios in the Olympics so it's not as if any participating rider could not have known this turn of events was at least always a possibility. Keisenhofer's breakaway and subsequent focused digging was so brilliant, but is it really something that's just never happened before, and only now for the first time everyone has suddenly noticed this "problem" that needs to be "fixed"?
Normally all professional road races are for commercial teams. The cyclists can come from all kind of nationalities. Depending on the type of course one or two will be the leaders, where the rest of the team will work for during that race. I depends on the type of race who is the leader of the team, there are sprint specialists, long escape specialists, multi day course specialists etc. And there are always people who's task is to help: getting food and drinks during the race, drive in the first row of the peloton to keep the speed up if needed etc.
Teams will normally content 7 riders. One as appointed leader of the day, the one who has best chances to win for the team that day, the others ride in a serving role for their leader.

During these races radio communication between the team coaches and the riders is allowed. All bikes have GPS tracking, so it is totally clear during the race who is where at any moment. This GPS information is shared openly by the organization.
And there are a few motors from the organization that ride in course and show the time differences between peloton and riders in front to the followers and leaders in course.

There are two races not organized by this principle: The world champion ships and the Olympic race.
Then the teams are formed by nationality and there is a maximum of 4 members per team. That makes things complicated for team tactics. It goes to far to explain it all here.
The commercial teams don't provide their communication systems and other equipment for national teams, so the UCI decided to organize these two courses without radio communication between the coaches and their national teams.

And during the female course 2 things went wrong: The Japanese organization was not always as professional as it should be (logical, Japan has very little experience with organizing pro road cycling) and the pro riders have very little experience with riding without direct communication these days.
A mixture of those two made that Keisenhofer (with all respect a very modest driver, more a time traiist) could stay upfront unnoticed for too long.
 
Last edited:
  • 1Agree
Reactions: Grandma Bates

Grandma Bates

Only mostly banned....
VVO Supporter 🍦🎈👾❤
Joined
Sep 20, 2018
Messages
414
Location
Airport
Joined SLU
Yes
SLU Posts
-1000
Also: Was this specific bicycle event one that had people start at different times? Or did everyone start at the same time? If everyone started at the same time, well, isn't it kind of on the bicyclist to pay attention to the number of people in front of them (I realize it is different in non-Olympic races where there is this voice in their ear muttering at them)? If people started at different times, well, then that's screwed up (not to let people know if someone was still ahead of them). Was this a race where anyone can grab a bike and start racing, and no one knows how many people are officially in the race?

There's probably some logical reason, other than not being told via voice in ear or hand-held signs, for why the bicyclist didn't know there was a rider still ahead of them.
This was the women's road race. It featured a mass start with everyone at once. There were 67 riders at the start, and a small group including the eventual winner attacked at the very start of the race. This occasionally happens in the men's tour, but it is extremely rare for the women because their courses are shorter. It is difficult to keep track of everybody because there are generally multiple attacks that occur over the whole of the event. Also, the riders taking part on the national teams are generally not used to riding together as they are on different teams throughout the rest of the season. This was even more difficult as the Dutch road captain, Anna Van der Bruggen, has an incredible and rare talent for moving through the peleton with extreme ease. She spent a non-trivial amount of the race at the back which makes it harder to monitor the riders at the front.

Normally all profecional road races are for commercial teams. The cyclists can come from all kind of nationalities. Depending on the type of course one or two will be the leaders, where the rest of the team will work for during that race. I depends on the type of race who is the leader of the team, there are sprint specialists, long escape specialists, multi day course specialists etc. And there are always people who's task is to help: getting food and drinks during the race, drive in the first row of the peloton to keep the speed up if needed etc.

During these races radio communication between the team coaches and the riders is allowed. All bikes have GPS tracking, so it is totally clear during the race who is where at any moment. This GPS information is shared openly by the organization.
And there are a few motors from the organization that ride in course and show the time differences between peloton and riders in front to the followers and leaders in course.

There are two races not organized by this principle: The world champion ships and the Olympic race.
Then the teams are formed by nationality and there is a maximum of 4 members per team. That makes things complicated for team tactics. It goes to far to explain it all here.
The commercial teams don't provide their communication systems and other equipment for national teams, so the UCI decided to organize these two courses without radio communication between the coaches and their national teams.

And during the female course 2 things went wrong: The Japanese organization was not always as professional as it should be (logical, Japan has very little experience with organizing pro road cycling) and the pro riders have very little experience with riding without direct communication these days.
A mixture of those two made that Keisenhofer (with all respect a very modest driver, more a time traiist) could stay upfront unnoticed for too long.
The UCI is the governing body for cycling, and sometimes I think their primary goal is to make sure FIFA is not the worst sports federation in the world. The debate over race radios in the Olympics has a long history. For example, in the 2000 Olympics Lance Armstrong whined that they did not realize Jan Ullrich and Alexander Vinokourov were ahead of the peleton, and he complained they were working together because they were on the same professional team. In that case if Armstrong could not keep track of Ullrich then he had no business being on the course that day. This year, though, the race organizers made some big mistakes in how they were communicating with the riders.

One of the arguments for not using radios is the limits on numbers of riders that Sid mentioned in his post. I believe that the policy on team size and selection is a much bigger issue. Many teams only have one or a couple riders, and if the larger, well organized teams had radios they would have an even bigger advantage. This would be worse for the women's side because the UCI puts such severe limits on participation for the women. For example, France only had one rider which is bizarre. Also, Kiesenhofer is a time trial specialist but could not take part in that event since Austria was not allocated a place in the field for that event. If the larger, better funded teams had radios then the lone rider from Paraguay, for example, would have been in an even worse situation. The UCI's response to this is to continue the farce of treating cycling as an individual sport which is a horrible aberration from what the sport is, and it causes direct harm to the sport itself.

Limiting the teams and not allowing radios may provide unpredictable results, but the racing itself is ugly. Having said that, there has been a great deal of discussion of the tactics and communication within the Dutch team. For example Marianne Vos said she knew that Kiesenhofer was still ahead, and Marlen Reusser (Switzerland) said that she told Anna Van der Bruggen that she thought Kiesenhofer was still up the road. (ETA: It is being reported that Vos did not realize Kiesonhofer was ahead until late in the race.) At the same time the tactics used by the Dutch team made little sense and were a significant departure from their approach in past events. (Kasia Niewiadoma described the Dutch tactics as "weird.") Letting the break go out to 11 minutes was a huge gamble by the Dutch team. I personally like Van der Bruggen and Van Vleuten who are great champions, and wanted to see Van Vleuten do well after her horrible crash in the last Olympics. While watching the replay, though, I found myself cheering for the breakaway and felt the Dutch were arrogant in their approach.

This has been a crazy Olympics for cycling in general. It has been a big disappointment for the Netherlands especially the women's road race and Mathieu van der Poel's nasty crash in the mountain bike event. The French women's mountain bike team also had huge expectations including talk of how the two superstars might end up hurting each other, but both of their riders ended up performing far below expectations. The women's individual time trial, tomorrow, could be interesting with Chloe Dygert being a big mystery as to how she will perform.

Having said all that, Kiesenhofer has a great story, and there is a lot being written about her. To ride out and stay at the front for the entire race is an impressive feat. She gambled that she would be underestimated, and she won.



Edit to add:

The host nation continues to cause problems for Dutch cyclists:


Also, accosting the reigning world champion as she prepares for the time trial is maybe not the most professional way for security to conduct themselves:

 
Last edited:
  • 2Thanks
  • 1Like
Reactions: Isabeau, Sid and Lexxi

Dakota Tebaldi

Well-known member
VVO Supporter 🍦🎈👾❤
Joined
Sep 19, 2018
Messages
9,781
Location
Ohio
Joined SLU
02-22-2008
SLU Posts
16791
The UCI's response to this is to continue the farce of treating cycling as an individual sport which is a horrible aberration from what the sport is, and it causes direct harm to the sport itself.
Is it really, though?

It seems to me the UCI didn't take a team sport and start treating it as an individual sport, it took an individual sport and never started treating it as a team sport at the Olympics when it began evolving in that direction outside the Olympics.

I don't see why it has to be all one or all the other for cycling. There are plenty of Olympic sports, like gymnastics, swimming. archery, etc where athletes who normally compete as individuals are formed into teams - or major team sports like football, basketball, and hockey where all the teams are made up of players who all come from different teams and never play together except in the very specific case of the Olympics and other nation-representative tournaments. In some Olympic sports there are both kinds of events so the same athletes play as a team in one event and then individually compete in another, including against other members of their team in the first event. If athletes in other disciplines can do this, I really don't see why cycling can't.
 

Dakota Tebaldi

Well-known member
VVO Supporter 🍦🎈👾❤
Joined
Sep 19, 2018
Messages
9,781
Location
Ohio
Joined SLU
02-22-2008
SLU Posts
16791
Simone Biles this morning withdrew from the gymnastics team competition, citing mental wellness issues that she was concerned might ruin her team's chance at winning a medal. USA did end up winning a silver in the team finals.

It's not clear if Biles will compete in any more events in Tokyo.

In other news, Japan beats the US for softball gold! Katie Ledecky wins the very first Olympic women's 1500, and the US men's team misses the podium completely in the 4x200 relay, for the first time since 1980.
 
Last edited:

Free

*censored*
VVO Supporter 🍦🎈👾❤
Joined
Sep 22, 2018
Messages
42,272
Location
Moonbase Caligula
SL Rez
2008
Joined SLU
2009
SLU Posts
55565

Dakota Tebaldi

Well-known member
VVO Supporter 🍦🎈👾❤
Joined
Sep 19, 2018
Messages
9,781
Location
Ohio
Joined SLU
02-22-2008
SLU Posts
16791
Come on Google, you could've chosen a better photo for this event....

 
  • 2Like
Reactions: Isabeau and Free

Sid

Lord of the plywood cubes.
VVO Supporter 🍦🎈👾❤
Joined
Sep 20, 2018
Messages
7,016
Is it really, though?

It seems to me the UCI didn't take a team sport and start treating it as an individual sport, it took an individual sport and never started treating it as a team sport at the Olympics when it began evolving in that direction outside the Olympics.

I don't see why it has to be all one or all the other for cycling. There are plenty of Olympic sports, like gymnastics, swimming. archery, etc where athletes who normally compete as individuals are formed into teams - or major team sports like football, basketball, and hockey where all the teams are made up of players who all come from different teams and never play together except in the very specific case of the Olympics and other nation-representative tournaments. In some Olympic sports there are both kinds of events so the same athletes play as a team in one event and then individually compete in another, including against other members of their team in the first event. If athletes in other disciplines can do this, I really don't see why cycling can't.
Road cycling is a team sport. Period.
It's a tactical team sport, maybe not really obvious for outsiders, but it totally is.
That should be respected. The UCI is a very weak sports organization IMHO.

National teams should at least have 7 members, so that the sport can be played correctly during the Olympics.
Can you imagine Olympic basketball with 10 teams of one player all at once on one court?
Or Olympic (ice)hockey on a (field) hockey sized field with soccer goals?
You will find the ideas ridiculous most likely, that is not how these games are supposed to be.
But with cycling the UCI and IOC keep it that way. Totally wacko.

Time trail cycling is the individual road cycling sport.