Next steps for VVO

[mixvio]

Uh, hi. This is a little awkward. If you don't know me, I used to go by Joshua Nightshade on ye old SLU/Second Citizen/SL itself.

If you do know me, it's been at least ten years and I've gone through a lot of therapy.

Anyway: a very long story short — as I think everyone has heard by now, Cristiano passed away suddenly at the end of August. With the help of his family and their blessings, earlier today I was able to get access to the VVO server host and renew the lapsed domain while it was still in its grace period, as well as set up billing under my own name so that the site won't be suspended for lack of payment. I was also able to get into Cris' admin account here and make myself a super admin so I can do site-functional stuff without having to log in as him*. As far as I've been able to research, I believe that I now have control of all of the accounts that are required to keep the lights on.

I know that there was discussion about what to do with the community here back when it was assumed that there was no way to keep VVO going as-is, so I'm glad I was able to help prevent a shutdown — I also don't want to step on any toes, so I want to be as transparent about all of this as I can be. And the folks who sorted out communities and solutions in the meantime deserve a shout-out for their efforts, too.

But this does raise a bunch of questions around "what now." I know how much time, effort, energy (and cost!) Cris poured into every community he helped create across the nearly twenty-five years I knew him, and I know how much this place (and SLU before it) meant to him. I think he would have wanted to keep the site going, but at the same time he's not around anymore to tell any of us what he wants now.

I also, respectfully, am not yearning to be custodian of this site (no offence). SL was not really something I had much interest in anymore even during the SLU days, and my lack of engagement has not changed in the ~decade since I left SLU. I feel out of place and like I've overstepped things as-is already, but nobody else seemed to have any means to possibly get in touch with his family and I'm just grateful that someone answered and tolerated the request. I figured I'd try for Cris' sake, as the least that might happen was the contingency you were all preparing for in case I had no luck getting access. I recognise some names and know some of you, but I don't know who the community would want to take over running things now — and some serious decisions need to be made about that, because this really should be migrated to another host properly instead of running on accounts that are technically registered to someone who is no longer alive. At the same time, I didn't go to the effort just to go "okay here you go, it's your problem now" and I want to make sure that this place can stay in testament to Cris' legacy of bringing people together if, indeed, the people want it to stay.

So, what do folks think, and what do folks want to do? I'll reiterate that I will be as transparent as possible about all of this stuff, I don't want anyone to feel like I've swooped in and taken over. But I don't think there's an immediate threat to the site's stability anymore, so whatever decisions come next can at least come from consensus instead of urgency.

I will probably make a different thread about things from my own personal viewpoint — as everyone can imagine this has been a very weird, emotionally complicated, and confusing couple of weeks and I've been trying to get my thoughts together about all of... *gesturing vaguely* ...this. In the meantime, I'm all ears and I'll watch the thread actively.

* I specifically made my own account an admin so I wouldn't breach privacy of anything on Cris' end; whether he's here or not to be bothered about it, I didn't want to be on his account given the personal interactions he had with other people who are still here. Whatever happens, I think keeping that account locked is imperative.

 

[Soen Eber]

I think we need to set up a gofundme or similar payment account to cover costs, whichever is cheapest that still has a good reputation, along with a "donate" button on the banner with info on how much is needed for the current month.

 

[GoblinCampFollower]

I think we need to set up a gofundme or similar payment account to cover costs, whichever is cheapest that still has a good reputation, along with a "donate" button on the banner with info on how much is needed for the current month.

That would be easy to do, but gofundme does take a cut. Other payment serves also take a cut of course... so maybe that doesn't matter too much.

 

[mixvio]

I think we need to set up a gofundme or similar payment account to cover costs, whichever is cheapest that still has a good reputation, along with a "donate" button on the banner with info on how much is needed for the current month.

On this point, I just switched off the account donation purchases from user profiles — they're going to Cris' PayPal account that's behind an email no one has access to, so anything bought there goes to a void that doesn't do anyone other than PayPal any good. I turned it off for now rather than changing the PayPal account to my own.

As far as I can tell no one has any recurring donations — if you do, I can't turn that off on my end and they have to be shut down through your own PayPal account, but this blocks anyone from making new donations that no one can actually utilise.

 

[Archer]

Thank you for doing all this Joshua, and I sincerely hope you're doing well.

 

[Noodles]

I am still willing to do the digital upkeep but would need the monitary upkeep for it to keep it going.

I also am only going to do it if people are ok with it. Frankly, I am terrible at judging what people think of me, everyone may hate me and not want that.

FWIW, I would need a bit to set up a PayPal account just for in take of donations and for making payments. I am not comfortable intermixing it with my own personal stuff, I already have eBay and such going in and out of there, keeping it separate would be easier for tracking.

Just to sort of reiterate, please post a reply or whatever on any opinions on this, I don't know that a bunch of emoji replies is a good gage.

Also I am not nearly as good a "community builder" as Cris, so that is on you all.

 

[mixvio]

I am still willing to do the digital upkeep but would need the monitary upkeep for it to keep it going.

I also am only going to do it if people are ok with it. Frankly, I am terrible at judging what people think of me, everyone may hate me and not want that.

FWIW, I would need a bit to set up a PayPal account just for in take of donations and for making payments. I am not comfortable intermixing it with my own personal stuff, I already have eBay and such going in and out of there, keeping it separate would be easier for tracking.

Just to sort of reiterate, please post a reply or whatever on any opinions on this, I don't know that a bunch of emoji replies is a good gage.

Also I am not nearly as good a "community builder" as Cris, so that is on you all.

For what it's worth: I will have to sit with how I feel about it and think a bit harder on the topic, but I am tentatively willing to stick around and help with a small group of people — Cris' self-imposed burden of doing it all by himself constantly was something I did always warn him about, and for exactly reasons like this. Other people being on the same level means if something happens to someone there's no need for someone to sit on the phone with a grieving relative trying to reset passwords.

If we really wanted to do it properly I'd even suggest sorting out a trust of sorts so one person can't just run away with everything and there's a process for elevating admins, but that's much more complicated.

I definitely don't want to be responsible for maintaining anything myself. I have the technical skills, but I don't have the time nor do I want the financial responsibility, and I don't even know if most of you know me enough to want me to be sole custodian regardless. I don't know how many old SLUers are still active here or what. But I guess I will put it out there that I'm possibly willing to entertain helping if there isn't a clear consensus on who should take over.

 

[Innula Zenovka]

I'll certainly contribute to the running costs. Do we have any idea what they're likely to be?

 

[mixvio]

What I paid today was:

USD$34.98 — hosting, monthly
USD$24.99 — domain renewal (annual at this price unless the registrar increases it)

There's also an annual charge for USD$29.99 for the SSL certificate that looks like it will come up in December.

The Xenforo license is lapsed; I don't know the email Cris used for the customer area login and this might be locked behind the email address none of us will likely ever have access to — all the more reason that I think this should be migrated somewhere else deliberately as a priority, since I might not be able to get in to renew it regardless. Now that I have direct access to the site backend, I can do proper backups and exports and nobody needs to scrape content. It'd be a new license cost when Xenforo is bought, I think this is about USD$200 and then it's like USD$60 a year for the renewals.

So the cost to cover the site maintenance at a minimum is not massive, especially divided out amongst multiple people chipping in.

 

[GoblinCampFollower]

What I paid today was:

USD$34.98 — hosting, monthly
USD$24.99 — domain renewal (annual at this price unless the registrar increases it)

There's also an annual charge for USD$29.99 for the SSL certificate that looks like it will come up in December.

The Xenforo license is lapsed; I don't know the email Cris used for the customer area login and this might be locked behind the email address none of us will likely ever have access to — all the more reason that I think this should be migrated somewhere else deliberately as a priority, since I might not be able to get in to renew it regardless. Now that I have direct access to the site backend, I can do proper backups and exports and nobody needs to scrape content. It'd be a new license cost when Xenforo is bought, I think this is about USD$200 and then it's like USD$60 a year for the renewals.

So the cost to cover the site maintenance at a minimum is not massive, especially divided out amongst multiple people chipping in.

Thanks!

That's vaguely in line with what I expected. And yeah, I can chip in too if we figure out the best way to gather funds.

 

[Beebo Brink]

I've had a monthly Paypal donation of $10 to SLU/VVO for at least the past decade. I disabled that this morning, but I'm more than happy to set up a new one once we have the reorganization details worked out.

Given all the customizations for the site, how well would it would migrate? If it's really not advisable to stay in the current account situation, what about opening a new account with the same hosting service that runs VVO now, then migrating the site data over. That way we'd get the admin details sorted properly, but the infrastructure would be compatible.

 

[mixvio]

I've had a monthly Paypal donation of $10 to SLU/VVO for at least the past decade. I disabled that this morning, but I'm more than happy to set up a new one once we have the reorganization details worked out.

Given all the customizations for the site, how well would it would migrate? If it's really not advisable to stay in the current account situation, what about opening a new account with the same hosting service that runs VVO now, then migrating the site data over. That way we'd get the admin details sorted properly, but the infrastructure would be compatible.

As I have access to everything at a file and database level it would be basically like copying one to the other 1:1. Doesn't really matter how it's set up presently. There would be some downtime just since the site would need to be locked to keep posts from getting lost in the transition but that would probably be the least painful aspect of the whole situation once that time comes.

 

[mixvio]

I do, of course, have an Arya Stark hit list of people who were mean to me ten years ago so once the bloodletting occurs we can get down to proper business. I may have been through therapy but I'm still a Scorpio.

 

[mixvio]

I do, of course, have an Arya Stark hit list of people who were mean to me ten years ago so once the bloodletting occurs we can get down to proper business. I may have been through therapy but I'm still a Scorpio.

(this is a joke)

 

[Sid]

I'm personally for letting this site for what it is.
And start a complete new one. No "Cris would have liked this" or "Cris would certainly have done that".
Cris is no more. And we simply don't know what he wanted. IMHO the way he protected things, he wanted this to end with him. Of course my guess is as good as any other. Do we really want to take that burden with us over the next years?

We do know, that we want to continue communicating with each other in some form. Why not with a clean sheet?

 

[Khamon]

(this is a joke)

pizza reaction because we have dagger

 

[Free]

Me and Joshua, we're good friends...

 

[mixvio]

I'm personally for letting this site for what it is.
And start a complete new one. No "Cris would have liked this" or "Cris would certainly have done that".
Cris is no more. And we simply don't know what he wanted. IMHO the way he protected things, he wanted this to end with him. Of course my guess is as good as any other. Do we really want to take that burden with us over the next years?

We do know, that we want to continue communicating with each other in some form. Why not with a clean sheet?

The last couple of weeks has been an object lesson that I wasn't inside the head of a close friend I'd known for over two decades nearly as well as I thought I was, so I wouldn't pretend to state a definitive opinion one way or another — but best as anyone knows right now, his death was unexpected and despite having had very near-misses already he didn't leave any instructions or clarification about what he wanted. There's no will, there's no declaration either way. He was active and engaging on here moments before he died.

I can't say for certain what he would have wanted, but from the myriad conversations we had — long after I realised SLU was not a good place for my own headspace and I couldn't understand why he kept allowing himself to be a martyr at the centre of it for no benefit I could see — he did really love most of the people here, even some of the really odious rotten shits that I would have deleted from the internet if given the ability, and it meant a lot to him to be able to provide this place. I don't think he would have wanted it to end with him, but at the same time I can't deny that based on what I understand of his psychology now this place might have been intrinsically wrapped up in his self-worth in a way that the only reason why it was important to him was because it let him be that person in the first place.

I dunno. That's why I'm not gonna be the one to make a decision about it.

 

[Khamon]

KHAMON HAS BEEN HEXXING ON THIS AND HAS SOME THOUGHTS

Firstly he is willing to contribute, even subscribe, and can Paypal but prefers Venmo if that’s an option.

I am truly happy to see Joshua here, am grateful for his efforts thus far, and wholly support him retaining Admin status for redundancy’s sake.

Noodles and Free will, I believe, also be quite suitable Admins for this site provided they’re willing to serve. This is my official, notarized, stamp of approval.

Finally, remaining here seems comfortable now that we have other Admin accounts and billing options. I’ll go wherever y’all go. But my vote will be to stay as long as that is feasible.

edited for grammaticals

 

[Soen Eber]

I'll happily transfer my $5/monthly wherever is needed. I'm an oldbie to some extent but not as far back as SLU FIC, I trust mixvio/Joshua.