My Linux Adventure

Bartholomew Gallacher

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Ow I would ...really not recommend this. Because of complexity and performance. Myself, I'd just spring for one of the ext4 drivers and call it a day
Well the performance impact of virtualization is nowadays, what - 3-4% maximum compared to running direct on the hardware? So negligible.

Of course it's a difference between running a small Debian or Arch Linux compared to Ubuntu.

I do agree to btrfs - you should use this only with throwaway data, or when you've got tons of backups of it. And time to restore the backups.
 

Jolene Benoir

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Has anyone been following this story? If Valve does actually drop support for Ubuntu and its assorted flavors that cannot be good for Linux adoption. It's looking like I'll be sticking with Manjaro. I'm still using it with a combination of Lutris and Steamplay alongside all other software like photo/video/music every day and so far no issues at all. Thus far this is the distro that is sticking in terms of my needs and usage. I also still have Peppermint OS (of course an Ubuntu offshot) on the other two devices, but I am far less concerned about gaming there as the devices aren't really up to the task other than older games. I may consider a light version of Manjaro in the future, though.

https://hub.packtpub.com/ubuntu-has-decided-to-drop-i386-32-bit-architecture-from-ubuntu-19-10-onwards/

Valve looking to drop support for Ubuntu 19.10 and up due to Canonical's 32bit decision
 
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Argent Stonecutter

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18.04 is supported until April 2023, and nobody sane is going to upgrade to 19.04 or 19.10 anyway because they only get 6 month support from Canonical, so it's a few years before this matters. Valve needs to update to 64 bit anyway for Mac OS Catalina, and I don't expect Microsoft will be supporting 32-bit that much longer either.

By 2023 you'll be able to get decent performance for older games in a VM. Heck, they could just repackage the 32-bit games *as* VM appliances.
 

Jolene Benoir

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18.04 is supported until April 2023, and nobody sane is going to upgrade to 19.04 or 19.10 anyway because they only get 6 month support from Canonical, so it's a few years before this matters. Valve needs to update to 64 bit anyway for Mac OS Catalina, and I don't expect Microsoft will be supporting 32-bit that much longer either.

By 2023 you'll be able to get decent performance for older games in a VM. Heck, they could just repackage the 32-bit games *as* VM appliances.
I don't know. The vast majority of games are 32 bit, so there will be ongoing issues for a number of years, I would think, as people will still want to play those games. As to VM, I haven't successfully been able to run games in one yet, at least not up to par, but I guess a lot can happen in a few years. While 18.04 will continue to be supported, they have made some pretty major upgrades to Ubuntu since that release, which I found to be a bit buggy, at least on Ubuntu proper, much less so on some of its derivatives.

I would think this is a fairly big blow to Wine, as well.
 

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The last version of Ubunti I really felt comfortable with was 10.04 or 12.04, whichever one was the last LTS before Unity, and they already had 32-bit library issues in 14.04 - I had to run SL 64 bit starting around then.

Really, someone needs to make a gaming distro.
 

Jolene Benoir

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The last version of Ubunti I really felt comfortable with was 10.04 or 12.04, whichever one was the last LTS before Unity, and they already had 32-bit library issues in 14.04 - I had to run SL 64 bit starting around then.

Really, someone needs to make a gaming distro.
Agree, though there are a few that aim to make it as easy as possible. I wonder: if Valve actually does drop support for Ubuntu, if they would also slow down on their proton development which has been moving along at leaps and bounds. If they do that, it would affect all of linux, not just Ubuntu and its derivatives. I certainly hope they do not make that decision.
 

Katheryne Helendale

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Canonical is going to reverse their decision. They have to. There's going to be massive breakage in the distro's support for common applications, and Canonical will be seriously shooting themselves in the foot if they don't. Yes, developers need to have been switching to the 64-bit architecture by now, but there are a lot of applications out there that still use 32-bit libraries.

This is lose-lose for both companies: Canonical for the support nightmare they're going to be creating, and Valve for simply delaying the inevitable need to work in 64 bit-only environments.
 

Jolene Benoir

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Canonical is going to reverse their decision. They have to. There's going to be massive breakage in the distro's support for common applications, and Canonical will be seriously shooting themselves in the foot if they don't. Yes, developers need to have been switching to the 64-bit architecture by now, but there are a lot of applications out there that still use 32-bit libraries.

This is lose-lose for both companies: Canonical for the support nightmare they're going to be creating, and Valve for simply delaying the inevitable need to work in 64 bit-only environments.
Yes, I didn't even touch on all the other sorts of software that are still very much 32 bit. I have a hard time even thinking of those that run exclusively 64 bit except browsers. I'm sure there are plenty but I think 32 bit programs have to far outnumber them.
 

Katheryne Helendale

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Yes, I didn't even touch on all the other sorts of software that are still very much 32 bit. I have a hard time even thinking of those that run exclusively 64 bit except browsers. I'm sure there are plenty but I think 32 bit programs have to far outnumber them.
That's true for Windows. However, on the Linux side of things, most applications that are in active development have been recompiled for 64-bit environments, though there are still 32-bit variants out there. It's the applications that are no longer being actively developed is where all the breakage is going to happen.

I was just thinking back, way back, to when the switch from 16- to 32-bit happened. I recall Windows supported 16-bit applications for a while, but all the software that was in active development at the time very quickly switched to 32-bit. The transition seemed to take a couple of years at most. Everyone was happy to make the changeover. For 64-bit, though, there seems to have been a lot of resistance. I mean, 64-bit processors have been around for well over a decade now, and developers are still releasing 32-bit code in Windows. I don't get it.
 

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Well over a decade? The DEC Alpha, the first full 64 bit processor, would be celebrating its 25th this year if HP and Intel hadn't brutally murdered it in its prime.
 

Argent Stonecutter

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It would have been sooner if Intel hadn't been putzes. They actually bought the technology from DEC and shelved it. They didn't even invent the 64-bit x86 extensions, they were still babbling about Itanium while AMD was bringing 64 bit computers to consumers (using DEC engineers they hired away when HP and Intel were cannibalizing its corpse).
 

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Don't forget commercial inertia for the slow uptake. Even just looking at Intel, several times they created a better architecture which never took off due to customer disinterest in using a new architecture (and having to update all their software, assuming the vendors were still around, of course)
 

Noodles

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Are we doing Linux support here?

So, I tried doing this a few months ago and gave up but tried again a few days ago.

I want to dual boot Ubuntu on my laptop, alongside Windows 10. I recently added a second drive to my laptop.

I've gotten it installed, I can see it when I boot from a live CD.

The problem is, Grub never shows. I am.pretty sure it's a UEFI issue. I have disabled SecureBoot and tried a whole mess of UEFI editors in the command line for Ubuntu and Windows, all to no avail. Maybe I just need to try some more.

Any other suggestions would be great.
 
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I want to dual boot Ubuntu on my laptop, alongside Windows 10. I recently added a second drive to my laptop.

I've gotten it installed, I can see it when I boot from a live CD.

The problem is, Grub never shows. I am.pretty sure it's a UEFI issue. I have disabled SecureBoot and tried a whole mess of UEFI editors in the command line for Ubuntu and Windows, all to no avail. Maybe I just need to try some more.

Any other suggestions would be great.
Did you install Ubuntu second (after Windows) or first? If you installed Ubuntu first and Windows second, Grub doesn't show.
 

Katheryne Helendale

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Are we doing Linux support here?

So, I tried doing this a few months ago and gave up but tried again a few days ago.

I want to dual boot Ubuntu on my laptop, alongside Windows 10. I recently added a second drive to my laptop.

I've gotten it installed, I can see it when I boot from a live CD.

The problem is, Grub never shows. I am.pretty sure it's a UEFI issue. I have disabled SecureBoot and tried a whole mess of UEFI editors in the command line for Ubuntu and Windows, all to no avail. Maybe I just need to try some more.

Any other suggestions would be great.
If you installed Windows after installing Ubuntu, you'll have to repair the GRUB installation. This link should help you with that. If you installed Ubuntu after Windows and GRUB still doesn't launch, that link might help you as well.
 

Noodles

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I installed Linux second. I will check into that link though and see if it gets me anywhere.
 

Noodles

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I installed Ubuntu second. I feel like part of the issue is putting Ubuntu on the second drive. I will check that link though.
 

Jolene Benoir

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I installed Linux second. I will check into that link though and see if it gets me anywhere.
I did that once, either with Windows 8 or Windows 10 and had the same thing happen. Katheryne's link should get you through. There was also a time when Windows 10 updates were killing grub as well, but I believe that has been completely fixed.
 
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