My Linux Adventure

Argent Stonecutter

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Red Hat has kind of fucked up wireless on Linux, they didn't manage to get everyone using Network Mangler but now that systemd has sucked in the worst of Network Mangler's sweet sweet fuckups I've now got RHBD (Read Hat Brain Damage) on the old Dell laptop I use as a walkaround console for my home servers. Updated it to Ubuntu 18.04 because I was an idiot and it systemd-ized me... now systemd-whatever is completely failing to pick up the nameservers from DHCP.
 
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Noodles

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The really annoying part is that there may be a driver that works better out there but the whole FOSS goal, which is admirable, means the system won't find it or show it to you or anything.

Hey, open source is great, but you look real unusable if you can't connect to the internet for shit.
 

Ashiri

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Is it just me, or are there more hoops to jump through to get your Linux system running that there were a decade ago?
 

Katheryne Helendale

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Is it just me, or are there more hoops to jump through to get your Linux system running that there were a decade ago?
It might depend on your system and how common or exotic its parts are. I installed Mint on this laptop several months ago, and it pretty much just worked. A decade ago, I had to do a lot of tweaking to get an Ubuntu system working mostly right. Unfortunately, the range of supported hardware drivers in Linux is more limited than that of Windows. A lot of that has to do with the level of cooperation - or lack thereof - of hardware manufacturers with the open source community.

Just be thankful you don't have to compile your own kernel anymore.
 

Argent Stonecutter

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To be fair compiling stuff on UNIX just works. I had to support some software that had a Windows port a few jobs back that involved a couple of third party libraries... and putting together the build environment on Windows was ALWAYS a solid day lost to figuring out where everything went for THIS release of Visual Studio and Windows and which version of the packages worked THIS time...

A lot of Windows programmers insist on sticking with Visual Studio 6 from 1998 because of that, but it wasn't an option for me, I needed to build 64 bit binaries.
 

Ashiri

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I've used Slackware, Fedora, SUSE, Ubuntu, compiled kernal, compiled SL viewer but I keep hearing horror stories about systemd.
 

Argent Stonecutter

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Systemd is from Red Hat and it's like watching gangrene spread. Everyone has to pick it up because Gnome has dependencies on it. It's turning Linux into Windows.
 

Katheryne Helendale

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Maybe it's because I'm not an active programmer, but I honestly haven't had any issues with systemd. I'm probably missing something here, but I just don't see where all the hate is coming from.
 

Bartholomew Gallacher

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Maybe it's because I'm not an active programmer, but I honestly haven't had any issues with systemd. I'm probably missing something here, but I just don't see where all the hate is coming from.
Well the thing is if you are the average user, who starts Linux dual boot or every day, then you won't notice most certainly any problems connected with systemd. Administrators though, where uptime, security and stability matters, will do quite more likely, and that's the bunch which is most fed up with it.

The problem with systemd is: UNIX has the philosophy of one tool for one job, keeping it as simple as possible. Systemd is a replacement for INIT, the startup procedure. This procedure should be stable, reliable and secure.

Systemd though reinvents every wheel it is able to find and then some, usurps fundamental libraries into its source tree, so that you cannot use them easily alone anymore without systems as dependancy, and tries to do so many things at the same time, that it is an utterly complex beast, becoming more and more hard to understand - and increasing complexity means also a security issue. That's where the hate comes from, and from the attitude of its developers.
 
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Noodles

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I've abandoned Ubuntu again. After trying a few dozen solutions, I couldn't get the network to run at speed. Which was made even more frustrating because webpages kept timing out while trying to find solutions.

As a last ditch, I tried to do a distro upgrade from 16.04 to 18.04 but that seemed to break Gnome, only booting to CLI and Start X just failing.

Did an update afterward the boot process ran down that little list of checks it does and then just hangs at one point.

I may try once more with a fresh 18.04 ISO.
 

CronoCloud Creeggan

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Even now, that I *could* make SLVoice just work via WINE or Mono, I still don't use Voice at all.
You don't need WINE or Mono to make SLVoice work.

Actually Linden Labs officially dropped support for Voice on Linux as well later Linux itself years ago. Firestorm still has it, but you need to run the Windows version of slvoice.exe using Wine.
You don't need to run the Windows version of SLVoice in WINE, Firestorm still has the SLVoice binary.

[CronoCloud@potos bin]$ pwd
/opt/firestorm-install/bin
[CronoCloud@potos bin]$ file SLVoice
SLVoice: ELF 32-bit LSB executable, Intel 80386, version 1 (SYSV), dynamically linked, interpreter /lib/ld-linux.so.2, for GNU/Linux 2.6.8, not stripped

[CronoCloud@potos bin]$ ldd SLVoice
linux-gate.so.1 (0xf7f18000)
libortp.so => /opt/firestorm-install/bin/./../lib/libortp.so (0xf7ee3000)
libsndfile.so.1 => /opt/firestorm-install/bin/./../lib/libsndfile.so.1 (0xf7e8a000)
libvivoxsdk.so => /opt/firestorm-install/bin/./../lib/libvivoxsdk.so (0xf783e000)
libvivoxplatform.so => /opt/firestorm-install/bin/./../lib/libvivoxplatform.so (0xf7740000)
libvivoxoal.so.1 => /opt/firestorm-install/bin/./../lib/libvivoxoal.so.1 (0xf76f2000)
libz.so.1 => /usr/lib/libz.so.1 (0xf76d8000)
librt.so.1 => /usr/lib/librt.so.1 (0xf76cc000)
libresolv.so.2 => /usr/lib/libresolv.so.2 (0xf76b2000)
libdl.so.2 => /usr/lib/libdl.so.2 (0xf76ac000)
libidn.so.11 => /usr/lib/libidn.so.11 (0xf7676000)
libuuid.so.1 => /usr/lib/libuuid.so.1 (0xf766a000)
libpthread.so.0 => /usr/lib/libpthread.so.0 (0xf7648000)
libstdc++.so.6 => /usr/lib/libstdc++.so.6 (0xf7451000)
libm.so.6 => /usr/lib/libm.so.6 (0xf737f000)
libgcc_s.so.1 => /usr/lib/libgcc_s.so.1 (0xf7361000)
libc.so.6 => /usr/lib/libc.so.6 (0xf71b9000)
/lib/ld-linux.so.2 (0xf7f19000)

Using the windows version is a debug option that exists ONLY if you can't get the SLVoice linux binary to work normally:

* A new option is a debug setting, FSLinuxEnableWin32VoiceProxy, which when enabled will cause Firestorm to launch the Windows version of SLVoice.exe via WINE.

If it isn't working, you're probably missing a 32 bit library.

Is it just me, or are there more hoops to jump through to get your Linux system running that there were a decade ago?
Not in my opinion, it's a LOT easier than it was.

I've abandoned Ubuntu again. After trying a few dozen solutions, I couldn't get the network to run at speed. Which was made even more frustrating because webpages kept timing out while trying to find solutions.
I've seen something similar, for me it worked better if I manually set the DNS servers. Try that. Also make sure you have the checkbox for "Require IPv4 addressing
for this connection to complete" checked

As a last ditch, I tried to do a distro upgrade from 16.04 to 18.04 but that seemed to break Gnome, only booting to CLI and Start X just failing.
Try updating gdm, also try a groupinstall of XFCE or something, that may pull down an update to give you back your graphical boot.
 

Katheryne Helendale

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I've abandoned Ubuntu again. After trying a few dozen solutions, I couldn't get the network to run at speed. Which was made even more frustrating because webpages kept timing out while trying to find solutions.

As a last ditch, I tried to do a distro upgrade from 16.04 to 18.04 but that seemed to break Gnome, only booting to CLI and Start X just failing.

Did an update afterward the boot process ran down that little list of checks it does and then just hangs at one point.

I may try once more with a fresh 18.04 ISO.
Back when I was running Ubuntu, I never did an in-place upgrade. It's a habit I learned from Windows, but also I had heard horror stories from people who did in-place upgrades of Ubuntu, so with every LTS release (and a couple of non-LTS releases where they had features or fixes I desperately wanted) I did a clean install.
 

Noodles

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Holy dumb problem Batman!

So, I removed Ubuntu, and then installed Mint. I figure, why not give another distro a try. I even tested in the love CD, the speed test worked fine.

Log into the fresh install, it's fine.

Do some updates, back to incredibly slow internet.

So, while trying to troubleshoot, I noticed something odd. My IP was listed as something funky. I double checked and it was different than my phone on the same network. I poked around a bit more and discovered a VPN plug in on Firefox. I turned it off and boom, regular speeds.

Now, this wasn't malicious or anything. A few months ago, I bought the Harry Potter BluRay boxed set. Thing is, it came with a code for digital copies, that was only good in the UK. So I had installed the plug in trying to create a UK Flixster account to try to trick it into letting me redeem my code to my US account.

When I signed into my Firefox account, it downloaded my plugins automatically, and this one was enabled by default.
 

Argent Stonecutter

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File an "enhancement" bug report with Firefox, to have it ask before downloading plugins?
 

Noodles

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File an "enhancement" bug report with Firefox, to have it ask before downloading plugins?
Yeah, or maybe I could contact the plug in writer, and suggest it be off by default.
 

Bartholomew Gallacher

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MAGA? No, MLFA is the new hype!


Just use this as options if you are feeling confident enough to disable all CPU security hole mitigations in the kernel so far:

noibrs noibpb nopti nospectre_v2 nospectre_v1 l1tf=off nospec_store_bypass_disable no_stf_barrier mds=off mitigations=off
 
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Bartholomew Gallacher

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Just in case somebody purchased the new AMD Ryzen and is using a systemd based distrtbution: those CPUs contain a bug in the function rdrand(), which systemd uses for cryptographic reasons to get entropy.

The result is that systemd might be unable to start its services; the boot will fail.

This is a CPU design bug, maybe fixable via a BIOS upgrade. It's perfectly fine to use a function offered by a CPU; so this is clearly AMD's fault, not systemd's.
 

Mondy Bristol

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[snip]
If it isn't working, you're probably missing a 32 bit library.

Always got voice to work as well just by following the instructions from the SL wiki for Ubuntu 14.04, just have the right libraries installed and you're good to go.
FS has always used an older Vixox version under Linux, as does Cool VL and Singularity, and I have no problem hearing people using voice under any of them, even if I don't speak myself it's nice to know what people are saying.
 

Ashiri

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Just in case somebody purchased the new AMD Ryzen and is using a systemd based distrtbution: those CPUs contain a bug in the function rdrand(), which systemd uses for cryptographic reasons to get entropy.

The result is that systemd might be unable to start its services; the boot will fail.

This is a CPU design bug, maybe fixable via a BIOS upgrade. It's perfectly fine to use a function offered by a CPU; so this is clearly AMD's fault, not systemd's.
Got more details to support that statement?
 

Chalice Yao

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Got more details to support that statement?
It is technically not SystemD's fault in this case.
* SystemD Can't use the Kernel's random number generator, because at that point on bootup it's not initialized yet. That's why it uses the CPU one.
* The AMD random number generator returns a number, and a flag. This flag tells you if generating the random number was successful. SystemD checks exactly that flag, then uses the number if the flag says 'Yus!'. Now, the thing is that SystemD wants a pile of *different* numbers, and keeps on requesting them if it doesn't have enough yet.

Sadly the AMD bug is, that their random number generator for some reason sometimes repeatedly returns -1, while *also* delivering the flag that says 'Everything worked great!'. SystemD trusts that (as they should), the AMD number generator keeps on spitting out the same -1 number. And SystemD keeps on repeating the request over and over and over and over because it keeps on getting the same number.

The AMD manual recommends a retry-limit in case the random number generator keeps on returning a 'This did not work!' flag...but it isn't. it keeps on returning 'Worked fine!'.

Now, one could argue that SystemD is maaaaaaybe partially at fault from a clean code design standpoint, because they should have some sort of fallback if it didn't get a different number after X tries, given that no random number generator in the world should keep on giving the same number...but really, if you can't trust the CPU, it's Game Over anyways.
 
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