Israel Halts Electricity Supply To Gaza

[Bartholomew Gallacher]

I never said it would be easy. We have decades of bad actors on both sides, with Hamas being the worst. But any Israeli occupation will perpetuate the cycle. A predominantly Muslim peacekeeping force can rebuild both infrastructure and governance while providing a buffer. It will take decades and active efforts at de-escalation to achieve stability.

But keep Gaza a shithole, deprive the Palestinians hope, and you will keep getting Hamas under another name.

Well, nobody forced the Palestines to run Gaza as a shithole from the beginning - it was their choice to have it that way. And Gaza is not occupied, its contained which is a pretty different thing, still a pretty bad thing - so you must mean the West Bank which is also half of the truth at best. Israel abandoned 25 quite well developed settlements in Gaza to hand it over to the Arabs peacefully, and we all know what happened to this.

And these Jewish settlers most likely will not go away from there, because most of the settlers there originally lived in what today is the Kingdom of Jordan, or are their descendants. When the kingdom of Jordan was founded in 1946, these Jews got pushed out of that country by force.

By the way another lie is that the Jews are not allowed to settle in the West Bank, because under the British Mandate for Palestine from the 1920s Jews have the legal right to settle in the area of what we do call today Israel, West Bank and Gaza. These mandate terms have never been rescinded. The UN charter says all agreements entered by its predecessor, the League of Nation, do remain in force and this is still in action.

As consequence of this there is no occupied Palestine territory, because there never was any Palesinian territory. And Jewish settlements are still legal in the West Bank due to the old mandate of the League of Nations.

Also note it's the Arabs which repeatedly refused to have their own state alongside Israel offered in 1947, 2000 and 2008.

 

[Veritable Quandry]

So what are you suggesting?

All I am getting is Palestinians=Bad. I don't believe that there is a simple or quick solution. But you are edging towards genocide as the eventual endgame.

I can't accept that as an option. And I can not accept that a one-sided view of history is helpful. Failure to recognize the complexity of the situation and to accept the legitimate aspirations of both sides to have a home is a recipe for more prolonged violence.

 

[Noodles]

I doubled my salary by using my PhD to teach Engineers writing.

Is this luxrative? I like writing and almost majored in Journalism but majored in Engineering instead (because Journalism does not pay).

On thenother hand, I am not sure if I am a good teacher. That seems like an important need.

 

[Bartholomew Gallacher]

So what are you suggesting?

All I am getting is Palestinians=Bad. I don't believe that there is a simple or quick solution. But you are edging towards genocide as the eventual endgame.

I can't accept that as an option. And I can not accept that a one-sided view of history is helpful. Failure to recognize the complexity of the situation and to accept the legitimate aspirations of both sides to have a home is a recipe for more prolonged violence.

I don't need to have a solution for this, quite simple. I've got an opinion about this conflict, and not much sympathy left for the Palestinians. Hamas got what it wanted, and most Palestinians do support Hamas. So... in case you find a good way to resolve this, let us know. I am curious about that.

I can tell you though what the IDF plans, because they've told upfront: they want to destroy all of the installations the Hamas has in Gaza, and could use against Israel again in the future. And they want to make the Palestinians so desperate, that they are telling Hamas to go away, maybe even kick them out. And after that they want PLA or whoever feels like it to establish a more moderate type of government over Gaza. Mossad is also in full revenge mode, like after the assisination during the summer olympics of 1972 in Munich. They've disclosed they know who all the people were which made the bloodbath, and will hunt them down and kill them all, including the people who gave the order.

It's a really ugly thing they want to do with the making the Palestines desperate part, but that's the way it is right now. This is what decapitating babies brings on you.

 

[Veritable Quandry]

You have been pretty much dead wrong on your analysis of the history of the region. And you are a fucking moron who can't fucking see that THIS IS A COMPLEX PROBLEM NOT A FUCKING MOVIE. Handwave away the cycle of violence you are heartily endorsing and then go fuck yourself with a rusty chainsaw. You're as bad as our Republican scum. You may as well be Roger Waters.

Just, you know, fuck right off and let the grown ups talk.

 

[detrius]

German magazine "Der Spiegel" has an interview with the man who went on stage in Amsterdam and took the mic from Greta Thunberg. His name is Erjan Dam, 65 year old physio therapist in retirement.

They asked why he went on stage and vent off some steam the way he did. His answer: "I do feel abused, and many other participants as well. We traveled extra for this event to Amsterdam, in total 15 friends and aquaintances from our region. But instead of protesting about climage change and the environment, the talks on stage were mostly about the Palestine conflict. One speaker after the other talked about Palestine, and some even agitated against Israel. All this happened while we came there to protest about climate change."

Next question: how did the audience react to the unusual topic? "Many viewers were disappointed and left; so we went nearer and nearer to the stage. And when the Palestine speeches didn't end, I went up the stage to tell all, that this protest here is about climage change and not the middle east." There was virtually also no security, which is why going up was done quite easily. After that he went to the train station.

Then Dam was asked about his opinion of Thunberg: "I always admired her. She's a brave woman. But her now always speaking about Palestine instead of climate change damages the climate movement."

How comes: "Well you know: climate change does affect all of us - regardless of origin, religion, age or political view. We can reach something if we stand united. But when Greta Thunberg or other leading figurs of the movement mostly now talk about Palestine this spreads discord. People with different opionion are appalled by such speeched. This then hurts the movement in return. The movement should concentrate on its core topic: the protection of the climate."

(S+) Protest gegen Greta Thunberg in Amsterdam: Was hat Sie so in Rage gebracht, Herr Dam?

Das Video geht um die Welt: Als Greta Thunberg erneut über Palästina statt Umweltschutz redet, stürmt Erjan Dam die Bühne. Hier sagt der Niederländer, was ihn bewogen hat – und warum er sich um die Klimabewegung sorgt.

www.spiegel.de

 

[Soen Eber]

Is this luxrative? I like writing and almost majored in Journalism but majored in Engineering instead (because Journalism does not pay).

On thenother hand, I am not sure if I am a good teacher. That seems like an important need.

You could make some lesson plans and create a YouTube channel to find out. If you're serious, it'll grow your skills and help to create an on-ramp for yourself.

 

[Noodles]

You could make some lesson plans and create a YouTube channel to find out. If you're serious, it'll grow your skills and help to create an on-ramp for yourself.

(This is really not the thread for a side discussion but it doesn't really warrant its own thread.)

I will say, its not quite engineers, but sometimes at work on different teams I do find that I have to steer some coworkers into massaging down what they are putting in some emails or documents. Like, it seems dumb but you have to step by step by step sooo much becauase many people will get completely lost if you don't add something "obvious" like "click OK".

Also, throwing out a complex spreadsheet with detailed boxes and forms looks impressive to some people, but others will get super lost in the details and completely flub filling things in.

Seems like sort of the same idea of what you are talking about a bit.

 

[Cindy Claveau]

U.S. Says Hamas Operates Out of Gaza Hospitals, Endorsing Israel’s Allegations

John Kirby, a spokesman for the National Security Council, said that intelligence from U.S.-generated sources supported Israel’s claim that Hamas has tunnels under Al-Shifa and other hospitals.

Sorry for the paywall!

 

[Bartholomew Gallacher]

You have been pretty much dead wrong on your analysis of the history of the region. And you are a fucking moron who can't fucking see that THIS IS A COMPLEX PROBLEM NOT A FUCKING MOVIE. Handwave away the cycle of violence you are heartily endorsing and then go fuck yourself with a rusty chainsaw. You're as bad as our Republican scum. You may as well be Roger Waters.

Just, you know, fuck right off and let the grown ups talk.

I have asked you about what's your solution, since you were always asking about it; and now you are talking about grown ups and giving this piece of shitty rant. You are for sure an examplary grown up by any standard, yeah, a very grown up reaction indeed you showed here.

The thing is of course its not a movie. But as long as not both sides are really serious about reaching peace, a stable peace is way out of reach, simple as that. As long as Hamas is not acknowledging the right of Israel to exist and act like terrorists, they will get treated as such.

And what I described as plan of action is not my opinion, but what actually the IDF has disclosed officially. So this is more or less the big plan Israel has at the moment. They also do fear right now that within 2-3 weeks the international pressure will be too powerful to continue their thing whatever they are doing in Gaza strip right now, so they want to reach their goals before.

detrius: yeah, well that's the Onion for you.

 

[Soen Eber]

Laughing at the "Der Spiegel" reference, not anything else in your post.

 

[Essence Lumin]

U.S. Says Hamas Operates Out of Gaza Hospitals, Endorsing Israel’s Allegations



Sorry for the paywall!

For those who use ublock origin, NYT articles will display if you also turn javascript off. It's the </> symbol towards the upper right when you click the ublock origin icon. There is a padlock symbol at the upper right to make the change permanent.

Also though, this breaks their wordle page. So if you want to have both you have to turn ublock origin off and on accordingly.

 

[Bartholomew Gallacher]

Why is Israel so sure about that Hamas has a possible command room/HQ under the Al Shifa hospital?

Well, because its so "secret" that Hamas regularly held there meetings with reporters, like from the Washington Post in 2014. William Booth wrote back then: the hospital "has become a de facto headquarters for Hamas leaders, who can be seen in the hallways and offices."

But the real reason is that actually Israel built this bunker itself with tunnels back in 1983 as secret underground operating room, when they still ruled Gaza.

https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/news/articles/top-secret-hamas-command-bunker-in-gaza-revealed

 

[Innula Zenovka]

Very good piece by Jonathan Freedland. There can be no peace until Hamas have been destroyed, but neither can there be peace until Netanyahu and his henchmen have been removed too.

 

[Innula Zenovka]

Sir Lawrence Freeman, a leading British expert in War Studies, on what happens next

Verifying Device

Evernote link

 

[GoblinCampFollower]

Sir Lawrence Freeman, a leading British expert in War Studies, on what happens next

Verifying Device

Evernote link

Is there a word for a statement that is true but just sounds terribly unbelievable to many people? I see so many online calling BS on Israel's claims about why it has to bomb hospitals but I believe Israel is telling the truth. They aren't bombing hospitals for fun. I see this as a perfectly setup no-win scenario for Israel. Anything they do will be horribly wrong. I feel like maybe they need to rely more on boots on the ground than bombs, but that is also a very imperfect solution that has costs associated.

 

[Innula Zenovka]

Is there a word for a statement that is true but just sounds terribly unbelievable to many people? I see so many online calling BS on Israel's claims about why it has to bomb hospitals but I believe Israel is telling the truth. They aren't bombing hospitals for fun. I see this as a perfectly setup no-win scenario for Israel. Anything they do will be horribly wrong. I feel like maybe they need to rely more on boots on the ground than bombs, but that is also a very imperfect solution that has costs associated.

ChatGPT tells me it's a veridical paradox.

What, exactly, is a paradox?

Quine (1966) offered his classic characterization of the notion of paradox, a taxonomy for paradoxical arguments and some vocabulary for discussing them. I

academic.oup.com

Quine divides paradoxes into three groups. A ‘veridical’ paradox is one whose ‘proposition’ or conclusion is in fact true despite its air of absurdity. We decide that a paradox is veridical when we look carefully at the argument and it convinces us, i.e. it manages to show us how it is that the conclusion is true after all and appearances to the contrary were misleading. Quine’s two main examples of this are the puzzle of Frederic in The Pirates of Penzance (who has reached the age of 21 after passing only five birthdays) and the Barber Paradox, which Quine considers simply a sound proof that there can be no such barber as is described.1

 

[GoblinCampFollower]

ChatGPT tells me it's a veridical paradox.

What, exactly, is a paradox?

Quine (1966) offered his classic characterization of the notion of paradox, a taxonomy for paradoxical arguments and some vocabulary for discussing them. I

academic.oup.com

Thanks! I'll start using that term now. Economics is full of provable facts that just feel absurd to people who don't want to hear them for ideological reasons.

 

[Essence Lumin]

ChatGPT tells me it's a veridical paradox.

What, exactly, is a paradox?

Quine (1966) offered his classic characterization of the notion of paradox, a taxonomy for paradoxical arguments and some vocabulary for discussing them. I

academic.oup.com

They seem more horizontal really but they are a paradox pair a ducks.

 

[GoblinCampFollower]

ChatGPT tells me it's a veridical paradox.

What, exactly, is a paradox?

Quine (1966) offered his classic characterization of the notion of paradox, a taxonomy for paradoxical arguments and some vocabulary for discussing them. I

academic.oup.com

I asked chat GPT a few questions and came up with another useful term for this. "Naïve realism" is how a lot of reasonable, intelligent people make absurd assumptions about this war because of inadequate knowledge of the region. I don't claim to understand the region that well, but at least I admit it. It's a much simpler conflict to people who don't know anything.