How COVID-19 is affecting society

[Fionalein]

I'm not so sure about the restaurant industry dying.

I mean, sooner or later, for society and the economy to start functioning again, people are going to have to be able to eat indoors somewhere other than their own homes and to be able to travel far enough from home that they need to spend the night there.

That's difficult to do without hotels and restaurants.

How is a city of any size to function if all the workers there have to eat all their meals at home?

To be fair most restaurants are targeted at entertainment not at providing the workforce with daily meals... most don't even open during noon.

 

[Innula Zenovka]

To be fair most restaurants are targeted at entertainment not at providing the workforce with daily meals... most don't even open during noon.

Depends what sort of restaurant you mean.

Mcdonalds and Subway certainly provide the workforce with daily meals, and while obviously they provide many of those meals for consumption off the premises, the fact you can also sit down and eat there suggests to me that sit-down customers are an important part of the business plan.

Furthermore, as becomes clear from the article, physical distancing affects the kitchen staff, too, so it's a problem for anyone providing meals.

At some point when restrictions on movement and association start to be lifted, people will need to travel far enough, and to spend long enough, away from home that they will need to find prepared meals and overnight accommodation somewhere.

 

[Beebo Brink]

How is a city of any size to function if all the workers there have to eat all their meals at home?

Fast-food and takeout may well survive, but sit-down restaurant dining -- with its thin profit margins and heavy reliance on floor space density -- is extremely vulnerable to a societal transformation in which distance is required.

If COVID-19 fades within the year, specific restaurants will fail but others will arise. Even without a pandemic the failure rate of restaurants is extremely high, so churn is par for the course. But if COVID-19 is here to stay -- as is definitely a possibility -- then the societal appetite for a commercial "dining experience" may disappear.

Until relatively recently, most people ate at home. Only travelers relied on bar/tavern food. The wide spread reliance on food prepared outside the home is a result of work pressures and extra income. As unemployment soars, people will have more time and less money, both of which will undermine the need for restaurants.

 

[Innula Zenovka]

Fast-food and takeout may well survive, but sit-down restaurant dining -- with its thin profit margins and heavy reliance on floor space density -- is extremely vulnerable to a societal transformation in which distance is required.

If COVID-19 fades within the year, specific restaurants will fail but others will arise. Even without a pandemic the failure rate of restaurants is extremely high, so churn is par for the course. But if COVID-19 is here to stay -- as is definitely a possibility -- then the societal appetite for a commercial "dining experience" may disappear.

Until relatively recently, most people ate at home. Only travelers relied on bar/tavern food. The wide spread reliance on food prepared outside the home is a result of work pressures and extra income. As unemployment soars, people will have more time and less money, both of which will undermine the need for restaurants.

I don't doubt that when eventually we do all start to emerge from our various lockdowns, many business will close and many industries will be profoundly changed -- you gave the cruise industry as one example, and I agree it's difficult to see how that can recover, at least for a very long time.

However, I simply don't think it's accurate to say that restaurants and airlines will go the same way, since sooner or later people are going to start travelling both within and between continents again, though probably not for the same reasons and not in the same numbers as they did before, and they're going to need overnight accommodation and somewhere to sleep.

All I'm saying is that, while I am sure that airlines, restaurants, hotels, bars, coffee shops and pubs are all going to be very different kinds of businesses from what they were BC, the businesses will still be there in some shape or form.

 

[Fionalein]

All I'm saying is that, while I am sure that airlines, restaurants, hotels, bars, coffee shops and pubs are all going to be very different kinds of businesses from what they were BC, the businesses will still be there in some shape or form.

I doubt that - as I said above, humans are gamblers by nature - "CoViD19 is for others, not for me - I will surely get away". Whoever believes humans will change their habits easily should go back and study humanities. Hard science will tell you the mechanisms how it works but humanities will tell you how society will react - just forget any idea of adapting for a greater good or behaving logical in the face of death - that's simply not how humans work.

I predict in 5 years we will be behaving as if nothing happened with CoViD rivaling cancer as major reason of death. Humans will shrug at the dead and say "That's just nature - it was their time".

And before you yell at me for being cynical... I'm just deducting from history how we as a society will react - I would be highly surprised but also glad if we for once decided to behave rational.

 

[Kara Spengler]

‘We’d go bust in months’: restaurants at a loss over social distancing dilemma

News last week that people will have to be kept two metres apart until Christmas came as a body blow to the hospitality sector

www.theguardian.com

It's about the difficulties that British restaurants will face trying to re-open, but I'm sure the US will face similar challenges.

Yeah, it is going to be a rough season in December. Right now a lot of people are making large takeout orders and giving huge tips which helps them and the drivers but that is not sustainable. While that can be done over the holidays typically people like to get together with family they are isolated from right now.

 

[Kara Spengler]

People just aren't grasping the full nature of the emergency we're facing. They're still stuck in a pre-COVID-19 worldview:


Anyone measuring this impact in months is not facing reality.

Rather than spend government money propping up industries that will die -- restaurants, airlines, cruise ships -- money should go directly to the unemployed workers and industries that can rebound.

Yes, we are looking at it as how do we get back to normal or something like normal. In some cases it is completely ridiculous, like how a theme park (which relies on crowds) would do that.

Instead we should look at what makes sense if we tear some pretty basic things and start over. For example, does medicaid for all in the us make more sense now rather than tying insurance to employment? Insurance is already projected to jump by 40% next year.

 

[Innula Zenovka]

I doubt that - as I said above, humans are gamblers by nature - "CoViD19 is for others, not for me - I will surely get away". Whoever believes humans will change their habits easily should go back and study humanities. Hard science will tell you the mechanisms how it works but humanities will tell you how society will react - just forget any idea of adapting for a greater good or behaving logical in the face of death - that's simply not how humans work.

I predict in 5 years we will be behaving as if nothing happened with CoViD rivaling cancer as major reason of death. Humans will shrug at the dead and say "That's just nature - it was their time".

And before you yell at me for being cynical... I'm just deducting from history how we as a society will react - I would be highly surprised but also glad if we for once decided to behave rational.

I'm not sure what you are arguing here.

As to humans not changing their habits easily, I'm sorry but I can't agree -- after all people fell into the habit of wearing car seat belts and not smoking in public places easily enough, once they had to, and have adopted the habit of buying and carrying smartphones with them with remarkable enthusiasm, and using them to communicate on social networks like Facebook and Twitter, and to using these as their main sources of news, without any degree of compulsion.

My point is that, when lockdowns begin to be eased, all businesses are going to need to rethink their business practices to comply with whatever regulations about social/physical distancing are in force at the time.

These regulations will have a bit impact on all business -- the layout of open-plan offices is going to need changing in many cases, as are these offices' washrooms, meetings rooms, break rooms and kitchen facilities.

The regulations will have a similar effect on retail businesses, including all forms of hospitality and catering, as, of course, will changed market conditions in the recession that will be upon us -- while people may well ignore the risks of congregating in bars and clubs, if they're out of work, then regardless of their views about the risks, they might run, they won't have the money to spend in such places.

 

[Chalice Yao]

Leave it to the German government to associate the Novel Coronavirus with the Umbrella Corp. logo... *sigh* this is serious no f*in computer game about zombies you f*in morons!

Coronavirus

Coronavirus und COVID-19 – aktuelle wissenschaftlich gesicherte Informationen und Antworten auf alle wichtigen Fragen von der Bundeszentrale für gesundheitliche Aufklärung.

www.infektionsschutz.de

Calm down. Take a deep breath. Everything will be alright.
The Umbrella has been a symbol for infektionsschutz.de and impfen-info.de for years.


.

 

[Kara Spengler]

Welcome to reality meeting actionism...

Humanity by nature seems to be composed of gamblers. If timid politicians had not introduced lockdowns as a matter of weeks only maybe people would understand better, but honestly: I doubt it. Pressure will build up and restrictions will eventually fall...
In Germany right now industry lobbyists successfully urged politicians to slowly start opening up public live again as "we're back to good"... and the dumbed down population approves...

Yeah, the mayor here keeps increasing things by a few weeks and the businesses do the same. Just get it over already and say it is a year but if circumstances change it might get extended or cancelled early.

 

[Aribeth Zelin]

I'd like to say that we've plenty of sit-down type restaurants that are open not only at noon, but for breakfast. So, even if they aren't like that in Germany, or your part of Germany, its not the case everywhere.

 

[Innula Zenovka]

 

[Kara Spengler]

I don't doubt that when eventually we do all start to emerge from our various lockdowns, many business will close and many industries will be profoundly changed -- you gave the cruise industry as one example, and I agree it's difficult to see how that can recover, at least for a very long time.

However, I simply don't think it's accurate to say that restaurants and airlines will go the same way, since sooner or later people are going to start travelling both within and between continents again, though probably not for the same reasons and not in the same numbers as they did before, and they're going to need overnight accommodation and somewhere to sleep.

All I'm saying is that, while I am sure that airlines, restaurants, hotels, bars, coffee shops and pubs are all going to be very different kinds of businesses from what they were BC, the businesses will still be there in some shape or form.

The vexing thing is a lot of people are just taking it as read that a lot of things will be more or less the same. The comics industry might get wiped out (or go digital) but that is because of things like sole sourcing a distributor that closed. There is the broad assumption that the biggest difference will be more cleaning and masks. Umm, no. Systems have to be completely rethought. Some high rent areas are only such because of how many people they can serve ... what if the underlying assumption is wrong and people in ac would rather go to a less dense area to conduct business?

 

[Kara Spengler]

I doubt that - as I said above, humans are gamblers by nature - "CoViD19 is for others, not for me - I will surely get away". Whoever believes humans will change their habits easily should go back and study humanities. Hard science will tell you the mechanisms how it works but humanities will tell you how society will react - just forget any idea of adapting for a greater good or behaving logical in the face of death - that's simply not how humans work.

I predict in 5 years we will be behaving as if nothing happened with CoViD rivaling cancer as major reason of death. Humans will shrug at the dead and say "That's just nature - it was their time".

And before you yell at me for being cynical... I'm just deducting from history how we as a society will react - I would be highly surprised but also glad if we for once decided to behave rational.

So how often have you seen pre 9 11 security measures? This beats it by magnitudes. Plus not all humans are gamblers, especially the older you get.

 

[Sredni Eel]

 

[Romana]

I'm not sure what you are arguing here.

As to humans not changing their habits easily, I'm sorry but I can't agree -- after all people fell into the habit of wearing car seat belts and not smoking in public places easily enough, once they had to, and have adopted the habit of buying and carrying smartphones with them with remarkable enthusiasm, and using them to communicate on social networks like Facebook and Twitter, and to using these as their main sources of news, without any degree of compulsion.

My point is that, when lockdowns begin to be eased, all businesses are going to need to rethink their business practices to comply with whatever regulations about social/physical distancing are in force at the time.

These regulations will have a bit impact on all business -- the layout of open-plan offices is going to need changing in many cases, as are these offices' washrooms, meetings rooms, break rooms and kitchen facilities.

The regulations will have a similar effect on retail businesses, including all forms of hospitality and catering, as, of course, will changed market conditions in the recession that will be upon us -- while people may well ignore the risks of congregating in bars and clubs, if they're out of work, then regardless of their views about the risks, they might run, they won't have the money to spend in such places.

As someone who is allergic (very) to cigarette smoke, I have to disagree with the idea that people are really changing that habit. I'm still having to dodge cigarette smoke in public places, even when there are no-smoking signs.
And why do people even start smoking after all that is known about it? And especially now that COVID 19 is part of the equation, who wants to risk getting COPD?
There's some very ingrained behavior going on there.

 

[Innula Zenovka]

As someone who is allergic (very) to cigarette smoke, I have to disagree with the idea that people are really changing that habit. I'm still having to dodge cigarette smoke in public places, even when there are no-smoking signs.
And why do people even start smoking after all that is known about it? And especially now that COVID 19 is part of the equation, who wants to risk getting COPD?
There's some very ingrained behavior going on there.

Depends where you live, I guess.

Certainly it seems to have had a big effect in Engand

Pub smoking ban: 10 charts that show the impact

It's 10 years since smoking in enclosed public spaces was banned in England. What has the impact been?

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[Kara Spengler]

As someone who is allergic (very) to cigarette smoke, I have to disagree with the idea that people are really changing that habit. I'm still having to dodge cigarette smoke in public places, even when there are no-smoking signs.
And why do people even start smoking after all that is known about it? And especially now that COVID 19 is part of the equation, who wants to risk getting COPD?
There's some very ingrained behavior going on there.

I only see people around here smoking in private or in designated smoking areas.

 

[Sredni Eel]

I'm not crying. YOU'RE crying. Edit to add: don't worry, it ends well.

 

[Romana]

I only see people around here smoking in private or in designated smoking areas.

You're lucky.
My apartment building has signs outside. People are supposed to go at least 20 feet from the building to smoke. Too often I have to take the long way around to get in because some selfish git is generating a cloud of smoke right outside the door (where the sign is, btw).
Why do deniers have to stand right outside doors all the time, anyway?