Has The Israeli Goverment BecomeThe Monster?

Bartholomew Gallacher

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 26, 2018
Messages
6,620
SL Rez
2002
Ehud Olmert, PM of Israel from 2006 - 2009, had an interview with German weekly newspaper "DIE ZEIT", which is centre-left liberal aligned. They talked about the recent developments in the Gaza war.

During his term Olmert negotiated a two state solution with Mahmoud Abbas, which Abbas refused in 2008.

Olmert was asked if the war will escalate further; he told it is hard to tell. Netanyahu is being pushed by his extremist coalition partners to occupy all of Gaza, but there are also indications that the generall staff of the IDF is against more escalation.

Olmert also criticises that Netanyahu is doing nothing against the violence done by jewish settlers in the west bank. He stated that even if this would mean a catastrophe of historical proportions for Israel he cannot rule out that Netanyahu is going to deliver the annexion fantasies of the right wing nuts in Israel.

Going deeper into Gaza strip would mean for sure even more dead people, civilians, solders and hostages. While at the beginning the international support was in favor for Israel this has changed, because the war is rightfully not viewed as legitimate military operation any longer.

Asked why he considers the war to be wrong Olmert stated it is because Israel has reached all goals which can be reached by military means. If the IDF will still fight on to satisfy religious extremists, then Israel would loose its morale and values. It would just become another fundemantalist, extremist, right-wing totalarism and messianic country just like Iran.

Asked why he's comparing Israel with Iran Olmert replied where's the difference between the ayatollahs, which are destabilizing with terror and other means the whole region justifying it with obeying their religion and the Ben-Gvirs and Smotrichs who are telling, that due to godly foresight they are going to take over all of the country and get rid of the Palestines? Israel is at the moment becoming a totally different state under its current government.

Asked about the consequences Olmert sees this as bad thing, because it could mean that the international support for Israel might just cease to exist which always was fundamental for being able to survive in this hostile location.

Asked about the two-state solution Olmert is of the opinion that it should be done, but not be used at the moment as tool for pressuring Israel like the UK is doing. He is for an own state of Palestine, but not as punishment but solution for the people in Palestine as well Israel.

When asked if it is too early to recognize Palestine as state he replied todays' choice is to recognize a state, which does not exist or getting both sides on the table to negotiate about creating a new state. Olmert views new negotiations as more useful than recognizing a state which in reality does not exist. He's also in favor for putting pressure on both sides to get them back to the table.

Talking about the role of Donald Trump in the crisis Olmert states he's got no idea which part Trump has in it. Nobody in the world seems to be able to understand Trump or to predict what he's going to do next. So he's hoping that Trump is going to do the right thing, which would be telling Netanyahu very harshly: stop the war!

Talking about war crimes against Palestines Olmert agrees the IDF has done them, but disagrees with calling it a genocide, because 2.2 million Palestines are still alive and if Israel would want to kill them they could just send a fleet of fighter jets with enough bombs to do so.

As conclusion he views Israel as divided, exhausted and potentially isolated, but Israel could still turn around in becoming a pariah state. 70% of its citizens are for stopping the war now and distrust Netanyahu. He hopes their share will increase, so that they can get rid of Netanyahu very soon.

 
  • 1Thanks
Reactions: Ellie

Innula Zenovka

Nasty Brit
VVO Supporter 🍦🎈👾❤
Joined
Sep 20, 2018
Messages
23,128
SLU Posts
18459

(I think this is free to read)

My task here, then, is not to catalogue the moral outrages; those are in plentiful, depressing supply. Nor is it to definitively proclaim The Truth about a conflict that routinely causes decent, moral people to arrive at opposite ethical conclusions. Rather, my aim is to articulate the sharp philosophical dividing lines that allow anyone to determine whether a given war is just—and if it’s not, why, precisely, it violates those moral principles.

In turn, clearer frameworks can elevate public debate—and make political pressure more targeted at the specific objections to an unjust war. ,
 
  • 1Thanks
Reactions: Ellie

Innula Zenovka

Nasty Brit
VVO Supporter 🍦🎈👾❤
Joined
Sep 20, 2018
Messages
23,128
SLU Posts
18459
Asked about the two-state solution Olmert is of the opinion that it should be done, but not be used at the moment as tool for pressuring Israel like the UK is doing. He is for an own state of Palestine, but not as punishment but solution for the people in Palestine as well Israel.

When asked if it is too early to recognize Palestine as state he replied todays' choice is to recognize a state, which does not exist or getting both sides on the table to negotiate about creating a new state. Olmert views new negotiations as more useful than recognizing a state which in reality does not exist. He's also in favor for putting pressure on both sides to get them back to the table.
The problem with that, though, is that Binyamin Netanyahu has spent his whole political career opposing a two-state solution, and now depends on the support of (even more) extreme ethno-religious nationalists who want to see all Palestinians driven out of Israel That's also why Netanyahu has consistently promoted Hamas against the Fatah-controlled Palestinian Authority -- the PA are signed up to a two-state solution, while Hamas want a single Palestinian state "from the river to the sea." So it's difficult to see much progress towards a two-state solution coming out of negotiations involving either Israel or Hamas at the moment.

The argument in favour of recognising a Palestinian state, as I understand it, is that it increases the diplomatic pressure on Israel by demonstrating how they're losing even their traditional supporters in the "global north," apart from the US. It's not much, but while the US is still prepared to back Israel militarily and economically, there's not a great deal anyone else can do, I fear.
 

Bartholomew Gallacher

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 26, 2018
Messages
6,620
SL Rez
2002
Friedrich Merz has said that Germany from now on will not approve German weapons exports for Israel to use in Gaza strip until further notice.

Merz reiterated that "Israel has the right to defend itself against Hamas terrorism."

"The release of the hostages and determined negotiations for a ceasefire are our top priority," he said in a statement.

However, "the even tougher military action by the Israeli army in the Gaza Strip" that was approved by the Israeli Security Cabinet "makes it increasingly difficult to see how these goals can be achieved," he added.

With the planned expansion of Israel's offensive in Gaza, the Israeli government "bears even greater responsibility" for providing aid to civilians in the Palestinian territory, Merz said. He called for comprehensive access for UN organizations and other non-governmental institutions.

Merz also said that "the German government urges the Israeli government not to take any further steps toward annexing the West Bank."

Pro Jewish lobby organisations in Germany are criticising that decision, calling it a point for Hamas in their global propaganda war.

 

Innula Zenovka

Nasty Brit
VVO Supporter 🍦🎈👾❤
Joined
Sep 20, 2018
Messages
23,128
SLU Posts
18459
US envoy to Israel taunts Starmer and likens Gaza assault to Dresden bombing

This is not quite the "gotcha" Mike Huckabee seems to think it is, since the Allied bombing of Dresden was of questionable legality at the time, but would now most certainly be a war crime under several articles of the Additional Protocol I (1977) to the Geneva Conventions.

In particular:
  • Distinction (Article 48): Parties must distinguish between civilians and combatants, and between civilian objects and military objectives.
  • Proportionality (Article 51(5)(b)): An attack that may be expected to cause civilian harm excessive in relation to the concrete and direct military advantage is prohibited.
  • Indiscriminate attacks (Articles 51 & 57): Bombing that is not directed at a specific military objective, or that treats a whole city as a single target, is forbidden.
 

Ellie

Heretical Raccoon Skunk with a Rainbow Pootbeam
Joined
Sep 20, 2018
Messages
768
Location
Ring Of Fire
SL Rez
2009
Joined SLU
Sep 2010
SLU Posts
1882
Mohamed Salah has criticised Uefa for failing to state how a footballer known as the “Palestinian Pelé” died in a tribute it posted.

Suleiman al-Obeid, 41, was killed on Wednesday in southern Gaza when Israeli forces attacked civilians waiting for humanitarian aid, the Palestine Football Association (PFA) said.

“Farewell to Suleiman al-Obeid, the ‘Palestinian Pelé’,” Uefa posted on X on Friday. “A talent who gave hope to countless children, even in the darkest of times.”

Salah replied to Uefa’s post on Saturday, saying: “Can you tell us how he died, where, and why?”
https://www.theguardian.com/football/2025/aug/09/can-you-tell-us-how-he-died-mohamed-salah-criticises-uefa-over-tribute-to-palestinian-pele
 
  • 1Angry
Reactions: Myradyl Muse

Ellie

Heretical Raccoon Skunk with a Rainbow Pootbeam
Joined
Sep 20, 2018
Messages
768
Location
Ring Of Fire
SL Rez
2009
Joined SLU
Sep 2010
SLU Posts
1882
More resource/territorial shenanigans. Countries recognising Palestinian statehood may have some bearing on this.

Gleider Hernández, a professor of public international law at KU Leuven, who was not involved in the study, told the Guardian that he believed Global Witness “arrive at what is probably the correct conclusion” about a risk of breaching international law.
He cautioned, however, that the analysis relied on Palestine’s statehood being established. Irrespective of Palestinian statehood, he pointed to Israel’s obligations as an occupying power under the fourth Geneva convention not to exploit the territory purely for its own benefit, ignoring the inhabitants.
He said: “In building a pipeline in the area concerned, Israel is probably committing an unlawful act … And then the question becomes … is the EU breaching one of its obligations vis-à-vis international law by having signed the MoU. And there, I think so … Even though the gas would not be directed to Israeli settlements in the West Bank, it would constitute a sort of toleration of Israel’s misuse of its prerogatives as the occupying power.”
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/jul/12/eu-risks-breaking-international-law-over-israel-gas-deal-say-campaigners

Legal experts argue that a pipeline central to the deal, which runs through Palestinian maritime zones, breaches international law because it was constructed without the consent or compensation of the Palestinian Authority.
Iran arrested 20 alleged "Israeli" spies in recent months: Iranian judiciary
 

Innula Zenovka

Nasty Brit
VVO Supporter 🍦🎈👾❤
Joined
Sep 20, 2018
Messages
23,128
SLU Posts
18459
The Guardian: Israeli unit tasked with smearing Gaza journalists as Hamas fighters – report

A special unit in Israel’s military was tasked with identifying reporters it could smear as undercover Hamas fighters, to target them and to blunt international outrage over the killing of media workers, the Israeli-Palestinian outlet +972 Magazine reports.

The “legitimisation cell” was set up after the 7 October 2023 Hamas attack to gather information that could bolster Israel’s image and shore up diplomatic and military support from key allies, the report said, citing three intelligence sources.
 

Ellie

Heretical Raccoon Skunk with a Rainbow Pootbeam
Joined
Sep 20, 2018
Messages
768
Location
Ring Of Fire
SL Rez
2009
Joined SLU
Sep 2010
SLU Posts
1882
After the visa program was halted, Loomer declared victory. “This is fantastic news,” she wrote in response to the state department announcement. “Hopefully all GAZANS will be added to President Trump’s travel ban. There are doctors in other countries. The US is not the world’s hospital!”
“If Laura Loomer had been around in 1940, she’d have been trying to prevent Jewish refugees from entering the US,” Paul Graham, co-founder of the Silicon Valley startup incubator Y Combinator, wrote on X after the halt on visas for wounded children was announced. “You know she would. And if Trump had been president then, she’d have succeeded.”
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2025/aug/16/gaza-children-visas-medical-care-laura-loomer
 

Ellie

Heretical Raccoon Skunk with a Rainbow Pootbeam
Joined
Sep 20, 2018
Messages
768
Location
Ring Of Fire
SL Rez
2009
Joined SLU
Sep 2010
SLU Posts
1882
US state department stops issuing visas for Gaza’s children to get medical care program providing key aid halted after complaints from Laura Loomer, the far-right influencer close to Trump

The US state department announced on Saturday that it would stop issuing visas to children from Gaza in desperate need of medical care after an online pressure campaign from Laura Loomer, a far-right influencer close to Donald Trump who has described herself as “a proud Islamophobe”.

After the visa program was halted, Loomer declared victory. “This is fantastic news,” she wrote in response to the state department announcement. “Hopefully all GAZANS will be added to President Trump’s travel ban. There are doctors in other countries. The US is not the world’s hospital!”

“If Laura Loomer had been around in 1940, she’d have been trying to prevent Jewish refugees from entering the US,” Paul Graham, co-founder of the Silicon Valley startup incubator Y Combinator, wrote on X after the halt on visas for wounded children was announced. “You know she would. And if Trump had been president then, she’d have succeeded.”
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2025/aug/16/gaza-children-visas-medical-care-laura-loomer
 

Innula Zenovka

Nasty Brit
VVO Supporter 🍦🎈👾❤
Joined
Sep 20, 2018
Messages
23,128
SLU Posts
18459

Innula Zenovka

Nasty Brit
VVO Supporter 🍦🎈👾❤
Joined
Sep 20, 2018
Messages
23,128
SLU Posts
18459
Reuters: Noam Shuster Eliassi on why humor hits harder than diplomacy

Evernote Link

Interesting profile and interview with the Israeli comedian and satirist

Few Israeli comedians have resonated as deeply with the Arab world as Shuster Eliassi, whose fluent Arabic and biting critiques of Israel’s decades-long military occupation and its normalization deals with Gulf states have earned her viral fame. But as her career has progressed, the situation in the region has worsened — an evolution captured in the forthcoming documentary “Coexistence, My Ass!,” which follows Shuster Eliassi over a five-year period as she develops a comedy show of the same name. Although the film premiered at the Sundance Film Festival in January to widespread acclaim, it hasn’t found a U.S. distributor, says its Lebanese-Canadian director Amber Fares — an issue that similarly dogged the Oscar-winning Palestinian-Israeli documentary “No Other Land.” It will be shown in select U.S. theaters beginning Oct. 29.
This reminded me strongly of the peace process in Northern Ireland -- it only started to deliver results when the British government stopped concentrating so much on the more moderate, centrist Catholics/Nationalists and Protestants/Unionists and started talking to the more extreme parties on both sides, and through them to the paramilitaries, to get them to start talking to each other.
The biggest thing the U.N. was so scared about was (working with) the religious nationalist community because it means breaking the status quo; it means working with Jewish Israelis beyond the Green Line (in the Israeli-occupied Palestinian territories). We said: If you want to influence something, we have to work with those influential religious leaders from the hardcore religious Zionist communities. And I think that as soon as we tried to do that, it really shook the system and it really scared (it).
Today, when we look at all these countries coming out and saying, "We will recognize a Palestinian state," it is, again, just a tool that they're taking from their old-school toolkit without providing any sustainable solutions or answers to Palestinians who are displaced, who are starved, who are suffering from Israel's genocide. They're just picking up an old-school tool from the diplomatic nothing box they have. We're seeing this replicated again and again. And I think that when, after so many years in the U.N., when I was hit hard in the face with saying, “No, we're not going to work with the actual problem, go back to working with those nice rabbis that are a bit leftist anyways,” then I was like, no, this is not where I want to be.
 
  • 1Interesting
Reactions: GoblinCampFollower

Innula Zenovka

Nasty Brit
VVO Supporter 🍦🎈👾❤
Joined
Sep 20, 2018
Messages
23,128
SLU Posts
18459

Antisemitism, anti-Zionism, and being pro-Palestinian

It all comes back to the difference between being anti-Zionist and being pro-Palestinian. Are you motivated by concern for Palestinian suffering and a genuine wish to see Palestinian national rights fulfilled, or do you enjoy seeing Jewish national identity trashed and dream of the world’s only Jewish state being eradicated? Is it compassion for Palestinians or hostility to Jews that shapes your thinking? “Our cause is not to establish a Palestinian state, but to dismantle Israel,” David Miller tweeted in August 2023. Only someone who believes Jewish power is a fearsome and malevolent force standing in the way of humanity’s progress would say this.
Also


Evernote link to png of article
 
Last edited:
  • 1Angry
Reactions: GoblinCampFollower

GoblinCampFollower

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 20, 2018
Messages
4,957
SL Rez
2007

Evernote link to png of article
It's weird to me how many people in 2025 still act like they don't know that blaming all members of group X for something someone in group X has done is just simple bigotry. I remember the elementary school I went to repeating this point ad-nauseum. I bet British schools do this too.
 
  • 1Agree
Reactions: Innula Zenovka

Innula Zenovka

Nasty Brit
VVO Supporter 🍦🎈👾❤
Joined
Sep 20, 2018
Messages
23,128
SLU Posts
18459
It's weird to me how many people in 2025 still act like they don't know that blaming all members of group X for something someone in group X has done is just simple bigotry. I remember the elementary school I went to repeating this point ad-nauseum. I bet British schools do this too.
Antisemitism has been called "the oldest prejudice" and it's been an integral part of European culture for hundreds of years. WW2 and Nazi genocide gave it a bad rep for a while, but it's going to take a lot more than some lessons about prejudice and the Holocaust to shift that.
 
  • 1Agree
Reactions: GoblinCampFollower

Innula Zenovka

Nasty Brit
VVO Supporter 🍦🎈👾❤
Joined
Sep 20, 2018
Messages
23,128
SLU Posts
18459
This brave man is describing the evil he sees before him. As a Holocaust survivor, he is uniqely qualified to do so.

He lost me, though, when he called for "the complete dismantling of the Zionist state."

What does that actually mean, in practice, for the Jewish citizens and residents of Israel?