Democratic Party Presidential Candidates for 2020

Veritable Quandry

Specializing in derails and train wrecks.
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We have had enough half-assed, rushed pieces of major legislation. The point is we need a policy that works. It is better to campaign on a workable framework drafted into legislation than to campaign on a meaningless show vote. What you are proposing isn't any more action than the Repeal the ACA votes over the last decade.
 

Cristalle

Lady of the House
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We have had enough half-assed, rushed pieces of major legislation. The point is we need a policy that works. It is better to campaign on a workable framework drafted into legislation than to campaign on a meaningless show vote. What you are proposing isn't any more action than the Repeal the ACA votes over the last decade.
Fine. That's what they are there for, so do it. Who said it should be half-assed? No one is talking about rushing anything. That's your implication.
 

Veritable Quandry

Specializing in derails and train wrecks.
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Fine. That's what they are there for, so do it. Who said it should be half-assed? No one is talking about rushing anything. That's your implication.
Having a bill to vote on in two years is a rushed job when it comes to reforming the entire healthcare system. Right now we have a few pages of policy goals. What we need is a few hundred pages of changes to the US Code and a few thousands of pages to various regulations (and the quality of instructions in the law will determine how close those are to legislative intent). Anything that can be voted on by this legislaure WILL BE half assed. Look at the mess that is the recent tax law. And that does not come anywhere near the complexity of healthcare legislation. The ACA took over a year to write and hold hearings on, and it left the private insurance model intact.

Yes, we need a single payer/medicaid system. But we need it to work. The best strategy is to start now knowing that it will take time and get it right instead of passing a policy document in the guise of legislation that may just bite us in the ass.
 

Cristalle

Lady of the House
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Having a bill to vote on in two years is a rushed job when it comes to reforming the entire healthcare system. Right now we have a few pages of policy goals. What we need is a few hundred pages of changes to the US Code and a few thousands of pages to various regulations (and the quality of instructions in the law will determine how close those are to legislative intent). Anything that can be voted on by this legislaure WILL BE half assed. Look at the mess that is the recent tax law. And that does not come anywhere near the complexity of healthcare legislation. The ACA took over a year to write and hold hearings on, and it left the private insurance model intact.

Yes, we need a single payer/medicaid system. But we need it to work. The best strategy is to start now knowing that it will take time and get it right instead of passing a policy document in the guise of legislation that may just bite us in the ass.
Who said they had a two year deadline? If they are going to do the work and they know it will take more than two years then they ought to get to stepping now so that they will be ahead of the curve instead of waiting two years to begin. Complaining about it taking more than two years is not a reason to delay. Two years would be great but if it takes longer to do it right, fine. There is no argument to support them not doing meaningful work now.
 

Veritable Quandry

Specializing in derails and train wrecks.
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Who said they had a two year deadline? If they are going to do the work and they know it will take more than two years then they ought to get to stepping now so that they will be ahead of the curve instead of waiting two years to begin. Complaining about it taking more than two years is not a reason to delay. Two years would be great but if it takes longer to do it right, fine. There is no argument to support them not doing meaningful work now.
Have you read a fucking thing I said? Have you read a fucking thing you wrote? You are the one who said jump now and complained that it isn't on the agenda for Ways and Means. That's the front burner. You said it should be passed now even if it dies in the Senate. I took that to mean in the current legislature. I did not fucking say to delay. I am for starting work with the expectation that it will take years to pass. So take the time and do it right. I did not complain that it would take at least two years. I complained about the unreal expectations that it would take less. The Democrats tried for 80 fucking years to get major healthcare legislation between FDR and Obama. This is a long game.
 
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Cristalle

Lady of the House
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Have you read a fucking thing I said? Have you read a fucking thing you wrote? You are the one who said jump now and complained that it isn't on the agenda for Ways and Means. That's the front bunner. You said it should be passed now even if it dies in the Senate. I took that to mean in the current legislaure. I did not fucking say to delay. I am for starting work with the expectation that it will take years to pass. So take the time and do it right. I did not complain that it would take at least two years. I complained about the unreal expections that it would take less. The Democrats tried for 80 fucking years to get major healthcare legislation between FDR and Obama. This is a long game.
Cool your damned jets and stop cursing. I started off by basically saying it's in the WRONG COMMITTEE if they really wanted to get things done. That doesn't mean that I said that it had to be done now, or in two years, YOU said that. How about you ask yourself if you've actually read a thing I said. Sheesh. What I mean by acting now is doing what needs to be done now instead of waiting. But do it in a way that isn't theater on the wrong committees.
 

Veritable Quandry

Specializing in derails and train wrecks.
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Why then is it the wrong committee? Ways and Means has a full agenda. Another committe can spend more time.

And you did say it needed to be passed even if it was doomed in the Senate. A reasonable interpretation of your statements about committee preference, need for immediate action, and future elections is that you meant it should pass in this session. You imply that we need immediate high priority action, which I unfavorably compared to the Act First Plan Later method recently favored in the house. Given your lack of specifiity it is a reasonable assumption.

And I was not cursing. It is fucking cussing. Cursing would be saying "May you burn your tongue on hot pizza and get a brain freeze when you try to sooth it with a soda."
 

Spirits Rising

Voice of Reason/Quite Blunt
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"People" are - by and large - fucking idiots. If you're looking for large, sweeping changes then do it right or don't fucking do it at all.

Also if you have an issue with someone cussing, that's your own fucking issue. Deal with it.
 

Cristalle

Lady of the House
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Why then is it the wrong committee? Ways and Means has a full agenda. Another committe can spend more time.

And you did say it needed to be passed even if it was doomed in the Senate. A reasonable interpretation of your statements about committee preference, need for immediate action, and future elections is that you meant it should pass in this session. You imply that we need immediate high priority action, which I unfavorably compared to the Act First Plan Later method recently favored in the house. Given your lack of specifiity it is a reasonable assumption.

And I was not cursing. It is fucking cussing. Cursing would be saying "May you burn your tongue on hot pizza and get a brain freeze when you try to sooth it with a soda."
The point is that people want meaningful action, and doing it right is implicit to that. However long it takes to get good policy, then do it. Don't dither. They want to know it's a priority. The House needs to do its work and do it well, even if the Senate will not pass it, because the time will come when it WILL pass and they will be prepared. People will have to go on the record as to where they stand, and then voters can know if they merely elected a blue placeholder with the courage of no convictions.

As for the cussing: it's not so much the words as you getting unhinged and boiling over stuff I didn't actually say.
 

Veritable Quandry

Specializing in derails and train wrecks.
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This is not me unhinged. Oddy your last statement does not logically follow from the string of posts that I replied to. It actually kinda contradicts mich of what you priviously said.

So my issue is with unclear writing, shifting goalposts, and an unwillingness to own your shit.
 
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Kara Spengler

Queer OccupyE9 Sluni-Goon
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Which unless you are independently wealthy requires money to hire. No-name candidates will have trouble raising campaign funds, when they are competing against more recognized names.
Exactly. But my point is for anyone who has the money and/or the name recognition getting on all the ballots is not a real barrier unless they want it to be.
 

Kara Spengler

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Excuse me, but is there something the #&$% deficient about Stacey Abrams giving the Dem SOTU response that she needs an old white man to follow up behind her and make sure she didn't miss anything, or what?
Make sure you say the same (for whatever pronoun and/or skin variation) to the other people that give responses, kay?
 

Cristalle

Lady of the House
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This is not me unhinged. Oddy your last statement does not logically follow from the string of posts that I replied to. It actually kinda contradicts mich of what you priviously said.

So my issue is with unclear writing, shifting goalposts, and an unwillingness to own your shit.
You shifted the goalposts by putting words in my mouth.
 
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Veritable Quandry

Specializing in derails and train wrecks.
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I did not put words in your mouth. I made reasonable inferences from your text because you failed to clearly articulate your position(s).

Remember, you imply. I infer.

And try to avoid mixing metaphors.
 
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Cristalle

Lady of the House
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I did not put words in your mouth. I made reasonable inferences from your text because you failed to clearly articulate your position(s).

Remember, you imply. I infer.

And try to avoid mixing metaphors.
I made no inferences. What I originally wrote was very terse. You assumed, without evidence, that I meant for them to pass something now rather than being serious and getting it right. Just because I answered your tangent doesn't mean that that was what I meant.