Covenant Dispute

Val

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This thread made me really uncomfortable. Is everyone best mates with the estate owners? Because this thread reads exactly like this.

True, if you own your own sim and rent it out, you can evict people within seconds if you so please but if they pay you - it is quite dodgy not to refund and hell, I'd be complaining to Lindens as well regardless of covenant as no refund policy in this case is plain wrong. Evicting someone for parcel name? Dodgier as those are not to be moderated by sim owners but by Lindens who deal with listings and whatnot. I can name all my parcels to Fuck Off And Get Dicked if I so wish to and only the host can ban me which in this case is Lindens and not the server reseller. Yep, snappy responses as said Fuck Off and Die are not exactly mature and that but if someone told me to rename a parcel called 'club-anything' because oh no, it must be literal, they'd get much more creative names off me. Are all parcels named Hell also literal then?

It is mystifying you all see Kimba as offensive as they certainly do not appear to be even if they made a first post stating the estate is a right out scam because hey, it is a logical conclusion albeit snappy but people make worse ones about businesses IRL. Said businesses of course can and should tell people off id it is directed at employees who pretty much just do their job BUT company owners are not above consumer law even if it is petty digital goods.

It is possible I am missing something but looks really weird from my perspective with a supposed huge corporation coming to defend itself from new accounts on a random forum about random client. Hell, it is completely possible it is a marketing spiel and Kimba is actually one of the owners (unlikely as it does not make them appear good but hey, to others they apparently do).

I'll ignore 10 dollars comments as it is patronising as hell to say it is nothing and I assume it is in relation to digital goods but 1 quid to me is not the max amount it is not worth battling for.

Edit to add: Also I just realised the covenant was not even breached since it was not a parcel listed in search as a club and advertised nor presumably had any customers thus they still can title it as anything as long as it is not on search. It is same as having stuff in your profile or Display Name. Sure, estates in SL can still ban you even if you do not breach covenant but it still is dodgy same as not giving refunds. True, you can decide not to reimburse customer if they persistently break your rules or it is over a certain period of time. However, as a company, a transaction is binding both ways and you cannot just ditch it for none perishable goods merely hours later. The later parcel title was rude but to the owners but it was a snappy response and as far as thread goes it does not seem anyone threathened staff (unless again, am not aware of it).
 
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Katya Dirval

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Hi Val :) Just to clear up a couple things to your post. I do not know anyone on this thread besides the two people who manage my estate whom posted on their own as i did not ask them to or know they did until after they did so. Yes, Kimba did break the covenant. It was not just the land title, it was objects she had on her land that were club related that we asked her to remove and to please rename her land as her neighbors were worried on a residential region only. that she had club items and named as a club in the title that there was in fact a club there. We nicely asked her to remove these objects and in return were slandered which is the second violation. The third violation was her threats towards me and my company. She claims i evicted her while she was on her land which is a lie. She was not online until hours later. She also claimed to be renting a 1/4 region which she was not. She was renting an 8192 SQM - 1250 prims - for 1999 weekly. Apparently she does not realize the land size she was even renting to begin with. She also said i rented the same parcel out 4 times in one day, another lie. It was rented the same day and that person decided the parcel was too small and upgraded. Another person then rented that parcel that day and still remains there. She has gone as far as harassing my renters from the main group which i had to ban her from, buying marketplace ads and leaving crap reviews so i had to delete them and contact LL. She has lied many times and she is the one who made herself look like the bad one, not me. The people in this thread are just smart and know people like her and can see through the BS and lies. This is seriously getting old after all this time. She had 5 days remaining on tier @ 1999 when she was evicted. NOT just for the land name. I do not think you read this through to know exactly what happened here or maybe you are just a friend of hers who is here to try to make me look like the villan. Who knows. She claims i am the bully but maybe she needs to look at herself and what she did, cussing at my staff, being rude, messaging my group members, buying ads to post crap reviews, making a post here.. I have not bothered her at all but yet she is the one that keeps it going so who is the REAL bully here? Sorry for the long post but, this is just getting ridiculous that you seriously attack the people on this thread and claim false accusations against them when they did nothing but speak their own truth and opinions. I wish you all well :) - Kat
 

Val

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As far as I know, you are allowed to put items out in SL that can be anything unless it is in breach with region maturity level. So she could have had objects that are club related but it still does not mean she runs a club. What if it was a set for a picture? It could have been a supermarket for all that matters but still would not mean she is selling things. However, I also do know that you can evict someone in SL for not matching your personal tastes on your sim but doing it hours later sounds quite dodgy since there is nothing in your covenant that says you are not allowed to name parcels however you like (which is still SL system thing so parcel name is irrelevant). You resolved the contract hence in my mind you should have refunded her, given her 24 hours because timezones are a thing and you both could have carried on without conflict. She did act rude but it was not being directly rude not threatening and I see it more like a teenager acting out and telling the world to 'fuck off and die' after their parents make a ridiculous rule or such. Again, there might have been things that she said in group that I never seen and that were abusive but everyone can question any company and its customer base as well as leave negative reviews. Going immediately to the scam explanation is a bit too rapid on her part but anyone is free to warn people about any company and it is up to them to decide if to follow up or not. A company stepping in to direct opinions in any way sounds like lobbying, especially if it is a minor incident that could have been resolved easily.

I only assumed people known you due to a lot of people mentioning being estate managers or owners and someone adding a line on speaking to each other about customers which is why it all reads badly to me. Whenever I go into any thread about any company, no matter how beloved, I expect to see varied opinions but not from owners of similar business but people completely not associated with the topic. I do not think it is proper for companies themselves to step into such a thing and it is certainly not professional, especially if you think you are in the right and dealing with a bad customer.

I do not know the person who made this thread either, I just am looking at it from a perspective of someone who does rent from estates and I run into plenty that suddenly decided to close business, kick everyone out and rebrand (weirdly common in SL) without any word or refunds. SL is a digital trade grey zone but it does not mean we should not keep standards up.
 
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As far as I know, you are allowed to put items out in SL that can be anything unless it is in breach with region maturity level.
You might want to read the title of this thread again. This is not about Second Life's rules.

So she could have had objects that are club related but it still does not mean she runs a club.
Or it could mean she does.
 
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Sid

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Damn, I thought this thread was declared dead more than 10 days ago.

Has anyone a good popcorn recipe?
Asking for a friend.
 

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Katya Dirval

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Val, it was not hours later. We asked her 48 hours prior. The region is residential only. We do not allow those types of objects that she had. All she had to do was remove club related objects and remove club from the name. The name was not really an issue, it was the club related items. If she complied, there would be no issue. She threw a fit, got rude with my staff, made threats, trolled the main group, posted bad reviews by purchasing the land ad on mp over and over. That was why no refund. I would of refunded her, i know times are rough right now but threatening me with her GOR friends, i will not give into that. I ignored her, banned her and she keeps going still. I do not steal and never have in the 12 years running my company. She violated several rules, was rude about it, and began retaliation. I wont refund her after that. Sorry. Simple would of been, ok lets move you to a region i allow these thinfs on, but no she got nasty. As an end note, sorry for bad spelling or grammar, i am from Nederlands. Best of health to all. - Kat
 

Khamon

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and this one time at band camp they were arguing over rocks and the bunny said "well i don't know why turtles have to be so hard shelled about everything all the time" and the snail fell off her branch laughing which was cute until the robin swooped down and swallowed her but then we all laughed again and the turtle said "okay bunny we'll play a round of backgammon to settle this" so they did and the turtle won
 
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and this one time at band camp they were arguing over rocks and the bunny said "well i don't know why turtles have to be so hard shelled about everything all the time" and the snail fell off her branch laughing which was cute until the robin swooped down and swallowed her but then we all laughed again and the turtle said "okay bunny we'll play a round of backgammon to settle this" so they did and the turtle won
Better than the flute story.
 

Val

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I still do not get how having club objects means you run a club now, since I have few bars on one of my parcels for photos but they are not actual bars. As long as exterior is within zone's building theme, it should not matter what is inside unless it is illegal, scripted mess or such. I simply consider demands to delete club objects ridiculous and breaching privacy of a tenant (I mean, it is SL but yeah). Regardless of all the above, it had been you who dissolved the agreement and not the customer, good it was a longer period than reported but still should warrant a refund. It should have been settled immediately when you did that and it would all have been fine even if I do not get the fake but real club bit.

It is not fine to threaten anyone but again - it is post situation and while horrid (I still feel I miss a few posts or such as I only seen discussion of old GOR scene and what it was with not friends being sent anywhere but it can be behind scenes) I am commenting on initial contract dissolving.

In other words, do not think I just get your standpoint at all from business side of things and just SL side of things.
 

Sid

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In SL there are 2 possibilities with land:
1 You lease from LL, than you have to obey their rules, otherwise you get banned. Take it or leave it, but LL sets the rules. Not the tenant.
2 You lease from private estates, than you have to obey their rules, otherwise you get banned. Take it or leave it, but the estate owner sets the rules. Not the tenant.

Only difference when you get banned by LL you are done with SL.
When you get banned from a private estate, you have the advantage, that there are lots of other estate to lease from.
That's the whole story. Not much more to it.
 

Katya Dirval

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VAL, Yes i understand. You apparently, with no disrespect, do not understand rules then. If rules say no clubs that means no club stuff as well. That is also stated in the covenant as well. Its residence only. No heavy scripts etc. Not sure what part of that you are not understanding. I really do not have time for this back and fourth silliness. I tried to explain to you but you keep saying how club items do not make a club... ok. Lol. Sorry had to edit from my poor mobile typing skills.
 

Eunoli

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If I'm renting parcels on my land and say no people with the letter r in their names are allowed, I can refuse to rent to people with the letter r. I am paying the tier. My rules determine who can even step foot there.

That said, if I was renting from someone who came snooping around my land to look at the items I put down for any reason other than technical (or visual if I had up a big ugly object that other tenants were complaining about), I'd be finding another place to rent. The only reason I'd ever look at a tenant's items would be if they were causing lag and I was investigating what the source was.

Its worth pointing out that in SL, your 'home' can be a club or a restaurant or a gas station or a spaceship or anything you want it to be. If the sim only allows houses and restricts items that can be placed in them, that should be made clear. The only offense I see committed by the renter here was her foul language to a representative.
 
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