Confederate flag/statue banning thread

Dakota Tebaldi

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To be fair, Grant owned one slave for like five minutes and felt so guilty about it he ultimately set the guy free when Grant himself was close to destitute and a less-scrupulous person would've sold the slave for money.

But that doesn't matter because saying "Republicans freed the slaves" is a little like saying "Darth Vader was a Jedi". It's a statement about the past, not the present. Democrats and Republicans underwent a complete role-reversal around 1964 when all the Southern Democrats who were still racist dickheads like Strom Thurmond switched parties and became Republicans instead, as Republicans opposed the Act and generally all civil rights legislation in the 1960's because of course they did, Republicans had already stopped being the pro-black-rights party with Taft back in 190freaking9. This is the history that people who say "The Republican Party is the party that freed the slaves" like to leave out (well, the ones who know about it; many of them don't, they just heard the "Lincoln was a Republican" talking point on a conservative radio show and it became the sum total of their understanding of the history of the GOP).
 

Arkady Arkright

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I was going to make a comment like 'when will they pull Dukes of Hazard off the air' - giant confederate flag on car that's called 'General Lee'. Like they pulled Gone with the Wind*. Then I looked up Dukes of Hazard to just make sure they hadn't actually pulled it yet to find . . . they pulled it in 2015 because of the flag.
The series is currently being repeated on one of the UK free satellite channels, Forces TV .
 
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Jopsy Pendragon

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the KKK was a democrat institution it's entire existence, they were the ones burning crosses. It's just the truth, it's why I'm not a democrat.
Nice to know your idea of politics is about 2/3rds of a century out of sync with reality.

Please do continue to educate us about your 'truth.' It's like poking through a deranged time capsule!
 

Salome

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To be fair, Grant owned one slave for like five minutes ...
The things you choose to play devil’s advocate for, ffs. Grant chose to marry into a slave-owning family and even supervised the slaves on his father-in-law‘s estate for a time while they built his house. He owned a slave. No one said he was Simon Legree. But, like most people of position at the time (even many of those with an abolitionist bent), he profited and benefitted from slavery.

But all of that is beside the point because the troll was asking a disingenuous fucking question in the first place. I simply picked the most high profile and yet completely accurate answer.
 

detrius

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saying "Republicans freed the slaves" is a little like saying "Darth Vader was a Jedi".
Every criminal used to be a law-abiding citizen.

Therefore, all crimes are committed by law-abiding citizens and guns should be banned.

:)
 

Innula Zenovka

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Bartholomew Gallacher

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KKK was all Democrat because it was formed from resentful ex confederate southerners who were all democrats, this is american history where i come from, i'm a yankee, name a single republican who owned slaves. By the way I like to remind my European friends who brought the slave to north america, as long as we were a nation every effort was made to get rid of the institution.
Luckily for us some fact checking site debunked both arguments "KKK was all democrat" and "no Republican owned slaves" over a year ago. Isn't it boring to just repeat Larry Elders' stuff?

 
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Aribeth Zelin

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To be fair, Grant owned one slave for like five minutes and felt so guilty about it he ultimately set the guy free when Grant himself was close to destitute and a less-scrupulous person would've sold the slave for money.

But that doesn't matter because saying "Republicans freed the slaves" is a little like saying "Darth Vader was a Jedi". It's a statement about the past, not the present. Democrats and Republicans underwent a complete role-reversal around 1964 when all the Southern Democrats who were still racist dickheads like Strom Thurmond switched parties and became Republicans instead, as Republicans opposed the Act and generally all civil rights legislation in the 1960's because of course they did, Republicans had already stopped being the pro-black-rights party with Taft back in 190freaking9. This is the history that people who say "The Republican Party is the party that freed the slaves" like to leave out (well, the ones who know about it; many of them don't, they just heard the "Lincoln was a Republican" talking point on a conservative radio show and it became the sum total of their understanding of the history of the GOP).
However, there have still been dixiecrats and dems that align with GOP racist [and sexist] policies; Kim Davis, for example, but also Zig-Zag Zell Miller who didn't leave the party and swap until the 90s, iirc.
 

Innula Zenovka

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That people are tearing down monuments shows we're destined to learn the lessons all over again because they've been forgotten.
I agree. Understanding history is very important indeed


Let's hope we learn from the mistakes of the past and, this time, not only the memorials to white supremacy are removed, but also the local economic and power structures that erected those monuments to its origins.

Whatever else a statue may be, if it's erected in a public space, it conveys the message that the person or cause it commemorates is one that commands not only the support of both the people with the money to erect it but also the support, or at least tacit consent, of the authorities that control the public space.

The people who paid for the Confederate monuments knew perfectly well what they were doing -- in the case of Richmond, it seems, quite literally creating a physical representation, in the form of the whole area, of how power and wealth continued to rest in hands of same kind of wealthy white men and their friends and family as it had ever since 1607, as a reassuring reminder to the kind of people and investors who needed that kind of reassurance, and as a somewhat less reassuring reminder to Blacks and poor whites that this remained the case and they'd remember that if they knew what was good for them.

ETA

 
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Jolene Benoir

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I don't condone setting fires generally, but I do have to say that when I read that the HQ of the United Daughters of the Confederacy building was burning during the protests, I felt a bit of pleasure. That might well be because I know their role in rewriting the Civil War into the "War of Northern Aggression" and in erecting all of these statues to traitors.
 

Archer

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I don't condone setting fires generally, but I do have to say that when I read that the HQ of the United Daughters of the Confederacy building was burning during the protests, I felt a bit of pleasure. That might well be because I know their role in rewriting the Civil War into the "War of Northern Aggression" and in erecting all of these statues to traitors.

I am currently living not too far from this building. My sister called me the following morning to ask if I had anything to do with that lol.
 

Ranma Tardis

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Be informed at least that the history of the democrat party in the U.S. is that they were the slaveholders who fought the Civil War to preserve this institution. We fought a war where 600k+ died to sort this out in the 1860s. Almost all KKK members were democrats, almost all slaveholders were democrats, and all Confederates were democrats. Democrats are responsible for the Jim Crow Laws, opposing the civil rights movement until the late 60's and the vast majority of racism in this country until recent times when its vastly reduced. Abraham Lincoln, the man who freed the slaves, was the founder of the Republican party.

A tale of two Democratic parties. It started with the Democratic convention of 1860. The Northern Democrats wanted to nominate Stephen Douglas but the Southern Democrats hated him. This is because he wanted to limit slavery in the west. It was really all about slavery. Thus the party split and each had it own convention and each nominated their own candidate.

Fast forward to the late 1940s and the Truman administration. The Southern Democrats were upset about Truman's decision to integrate the US military and other reforms. The Dixiecrats were a short lived political party founded by James Strom Thurmond Sr. He became a Republican in 1964. Other Southern Democrats joined the Republican Party as well. President Johnson's civil rights bill was the beginning of the migration of the Southern Democrats to the Republican Party.

Forward to 1980 and the election of Ronald Reagan. Reagan was able to pass his conservative bills with the aid of the boll weevi Democrats. They changed parties and became Republicans. What is left of them is a small group known as the Blue Dog Democrats.

So what you wrote is true but it is not true at the same time. You leave a lot of important facts out of your simplistic argument.