WTF Climate Change News

[Beebo Brink]

Wildfires are erasing Western forests. Climate change is making it permanent.

The evidence is clear: Climate change is turning forests into scrublands across large swaths of the Western U.S. after wildfires.

grist.org

Twenty years have passed since the Valley Complex Fire burned down the mature forests in Bitterroot National Forest in Montana, and yet there are no signs of young trees returning to the big swaths of landscape. Sixteen years after the Peppin Fire in Lincoln National Forest in New Mexico, it appears the pines are gone for good in many places, replaced by scrubby Gambrel oaks that can survive in the hotter conditions. After the 2007 Moonlight Fire in Plumas National Forest, dense stands of chaparral whitethorn and greenleaf manzanita grew back, rather than trees. “It’s already happening, it’s not just something we are modeling in the future,” Davis said. “We are definitely at a point where we are all noticing significant impacts of climate change in terms of lack of forest regeneration across the West.”

 

[WolfEyes]

I only have one question. Why hasn't anyone bothered to reseed?

 

[Beebo Brink]

I only have one question. Why hasn't anyone bothered to reseed?

That is explained in the article. Seedlings are more vulnerable to climate changes than mature trees, so as the areas get warmer and drier, the seedlings don't grow. This lack of new growth isn't obvious while the older, mature trees are still there, but then a fire comes along and wipes them out, revealing the underlying changes that were already taking place.

 

[Beebo Brink]

Rain falls at the summit of Greenland Ice Sheet for first time on record
It occurred as Greenland experienced a major melting event again.

Greenland just experienced another massive melt event this year. But this time, something unusual happened. It also rained at the summit of the ice sheet, nearly two miles above sea level.

The Arctic’s ice is thinning faster than expected. It’s an ominous sign.

The British team’s new calculations indicate that Arctic ice is thinning 70 to 100 percent faster — that is, at roughly double the rate — than previously thought. This finding is just another in a long string of warnings from scientists that many of global warming’s predicted effects may be occurring faster or in a more severe manner than anticipated.

 

[WolfEyes]

That is explained in the article. Seedlings are more vulnerable to climate changes than mature trees, so as the areas get warmer and drier, the seedlings don't grow. This lack of new growth isn't obvious while the older, mature trees are still there, but then a fire comes along and wipes them out, revealing the underlying changes that were already taking place.

A long time ago I worked for the forestry replanting. There is more to it than just sticking a seedling in the ground and forgetting about it.

So, they're just not bothering. That will really help. I'm sure they see it as a waste of time and money.

We're doomed.

 

[Beebo Brink]

A long time ago I worked for the forestry replanting. There is more to it than just sticking a seedling in the ground and forgetting about it.

So, they're just not bothering. That will really help. I'm sure they see it as a waste of time and money.

We're doomed.

Well, yes, we are doomed, but not because "they're just not bothering" to replant.

Again, the article is very specific about the climate changes that are affecting wide areas of current forestland. Specific areas are just no longer suited for pine forests. Natural re-seeding had already stopped, before the fires.

Western landscapes are changing, and frankly, there's nothing we can do about it. Just as there's nothing we can do about rising sea levels. It's possible we could do something to stabilize some future scenario -- whatever that turns out to be at that time -- but in our lifetimes the conditions will continue to change.

 

[WolfEyes]

So, we just give up and don't even try to reclaim.

Sorry, no can do. I'm not giving up until the fat lady sings. And she isn't going to be singing because I sewed her mouth closed after I wired her jaws shut.

That's not half as cruel as what's been and being done to this planet.

 

[Beebo Brink]

So, we just give up and don't even try to reclaim.

What exactly do you think can be done? You can't "reclaim" land that has fundamentally changed its ecosystem based on new climate conditions. You can't go back to a cooler air temperature, more moisture, or higher groundwater levels. Nurturing a few seedlings won't restore pine forests; the necessary intensive effort to grow them doesn't scale up over hundreds of acres of land.

Climate conditions will continue to shift around the planet, and plants and animals will shift along with it if they can, or die if they can't. You can't save the pine forests anymore than you can restore the glaciers that are melting away. You can't save the salmon that are boiling alive in their streams during heat waves, or stop the bleaching of coral reefs. You can't stop the spread of insects and parasites as they follow the warmer weather northward. You can't stop the acidity levels in the ocean that are dissolving shellfish.

Accepting the reality of a world that is changing around us is not "giving up." The only battle we can fight now is to stop the source of the change: carbon emissions. This effort will not restore the world as we knew it even 50 years ago. There is no going back, that world is gone. The best we can hope for at this point is that the way forward won't be a catastrophic disaster.

 

[Innula Zenovka]

Morrisons announces ambitious plans for carbon neutral eggs

Morrisons will become the first supermarket to launch its own-brand carbon neutral eggs in 2022 and will reduce the use of soya feed at 10 of its free-range egg farms.

www.yorkshirepost.co.uk

(Morrisons are one of our largest supermarket chains).

 

[Kamilah Hauptmann]

B.C. breaking temperature records, causing snowmelt, adding to flooding

B.C. breaking temperature records, causing snowmelt, adding to flooding

While there's a bit of a break in the weather, flood watches and warnings remain in place for many areas in B.C. as more rain is expected in the forecast.

vancouver.citynews.ca

 

[Katheryne Helendale]

The average high temperature here on December 1st is 59F/15C. Today, it got up to 74F/23C.

 

[Bartholomew Gallacher]

What exactly do you think can be done?

<Techbla on>
Probably he thinks that we'll just need to make it around 2063, when - as we do all know - the first contact between the Vulcans and Humans will be made thanks to the first human warp flight done by Zafran Cochrane, who will be born somewhere around in the 2030s. So no wonder he's not around yet and blessed us with his young genius already, because that'll happen only in the 2040s and later.

As we all do know warp drives to use matter-anti-matter-reactors, which will even deliver more energy than the yet to be finalized fusion reactors. And when we'll be able to move around star ships with it throughout the galaxy, we'll have plenty of anti-matter available, even though nobody yet knows from where.

So this means by then we'll have plenty of cheap energy around, we will have Star Trek technology and therefore can finally start to install the global weather control matrix on Earth which has been mentioned in Star Trek oh so many times. And with mankind controlling weather such issues will be just an issue of tapping a few buttons on LCARS to make a lasting climate change.
</Techbla off>

 

[WolfEyes]

I am not a man, as you well know.

 

[Bartholomew Gallacher]

Look, buddy, we could now derail the discussion about your perceived gender and whatnot. This would be maybe a mildly interesting exercise at best, and somewhat entertaining waste of time, aside that we could also include why on earth you are certain about that "as you well know" part, because that's just ridiculous, I don't know you nor do I really care about if you are male, female, alien, asexual or whatever.

None of that will make your statements about the seedlings above less detached from reality than they are, and therefore more valid as if magic happened. So, having said that, maybe go read some forestry science books to get more in touch with reality again.

 

[Innula Zenovka]

I have to say that I think taking that tone with WolfEyes, a long-standing and valued member of our little community, is completely uncalled for.

 

[WolfEyes]

Perceived gender? LOL I've been on VVO since the start and was on SLU from 2009 and every regular here, except you, has never question the fact that I was born female and have always presented as female.

I haven't responded to Beebs on that because she isn't ready to listen. Neither are you. There is no point in responding until people are actually ready to listen. Something I have learned about Beebs since 2009.

It's not worth my time or anyone else's if they aren't ready to listen and yes, I can tell when they are.

 

[WolfEyes]

Crude reality: One U.S. state consumes half the oil from the Amazon rainforest (msn.com)

 

[Ashiri]

Perceived gender? LOL I've been on VVO since the start and was on SLU from 2009 and every regular here, except you, has never question the fact that I was born female and have always presented as female.

I haven't responded to Beebs on that because she isn't ready to listen. Neither are you. There is no point in responding until people are actually ready to listen. Something I have learned about Beebs since 2009.

It's not worth my time or anyone else's if they aren't ready to listen and yes, I can tell when they are.

FWIW, it seems to me that you and Beebo are talking past each other. I can see where you are coming from and where Beebo is coming from. I don't have any answers, I'm not an expert in how ecosystems changes with climate change. I think even the experts will be struggling to come up with solutions.

 

[detrius]

your perceived gender

FFS

 

[danielravennest]

As we all do know warp drives to use matter-anti-matter-reactors, which will even deliver more energy than the yet to be finalized fusion reactors. And when we'll be able to move around star ships with it throughout the galaxy, we'll have plenty of anti-matter available, even though nobody yet knows from where.

Unfortunately for dreams of warp drives, while antimatter-matter reactions do release a huge amount of energy, the rest of the spaceship is made of matter. So you need some kind of container to keep the antimatter from touching any kind of matter. It needs to be something magnetic or electrostatic, rather than a material container, and it has to keep the antimatter in place while you accelerate. When you put in realistic numbers, the container weighs so much, your energy density is *worse* than fusion.

The only way I know to do better than fusion is beamed power + particle accelerator. The beam comes from outside the ship, so it can be unlimited in amount. An accelerator can speed your fuel up to near lightspeed, where it gains mass. So you can eject multiples the mass in your fuel tank. So the theoretical performance can be better than a perfect antimatter drive. We don't know the practical performance yet, because nobody has done a serious design yet, much less a working engine.

Solar-electric propulsion, which is already in common use, uses natural sunlight rather than a concentrated beam. The particles are moving fast compared to chemical rocket exhaust (about 10x), but nowhere near lightspeed. Still, it is a step on the path to what I described.