WTF Climate Change News

Arkady Arkright · Jun 25, 2021

Innula Zenovka said:

I expect charles is worried that someone might drop a lit match on his 128,000 acres of the UK...

WolfEyes · Jun 25, 2021

If I had that much acreage I'd be worried about it, too. But for different, and probably better, reasons.

Beebo Brink · Jun 26, 2021

Opinion: If you hated COVID-19, just wait until climate change heats up

With temperatures above 100 degrees in Portland, let's check on what California is doing to harden itself against climate change.

www.latimes.com

WolfEyes · Jun 26, 2021

Scientists use clues from trees to put the current drought into perspective (msn.com)

Beebo Brink · Jun 28, 2021

Canada hits record temperature of 46.1C amid heatwave

British Columbian village sets new record, with most of western Canada subject to heat warning

www.theguardian.com

Bartholomew Gallacher · Jun 28, 2021

Well, public cooling shelters now are a thing in some states due to that, like e.g. in Portland, Oregon. States which normally are known to have a more moderate climate compared to California, Florida or Nevada.

Northwest "heat dome" shows the extreme impacts of climate change

Climate change is dramatically raising the likelihood of events that simply have no precedent.

www.axios.com

Beebo Brink · Jun 28, 2021

Innula Zenovka · Jun 28, 2021

New climate science could cause wave of litigation against businesses – study

Experts say scientific advances are making it easier to attribute the damages of climate breakdown to companies’ activities

www.theguardian.com

Innula Zenovka · Jun 29, 2021

Billions needed to protect Glasgow from climate effects, report says

Study says 2m in Clyde area – due to host Cop26 – face severe disruption without urgent investment

www.theguardian.com

Beebo Brink · Jun 29, 2021

Innula Zenovka said:
Billions needed to protect Glasgow from climate effects, report says

Study says 2m in Clyde area – due to host Cop26 – face severe disruption without urgent investment

www.theguardian.com

This is one of the reasons I believe that climate change will de-stabilize our societies. The cost of climate mitigation is ruinous. That's the price tag for ONE CITY. If we spend the money it takes to protect our cities and coastal lands from the effects of climate change (rising sea water, heat, drought, floods), that's money diverted from other urgent needs, almost inevitably education, healthcare, social support services. But if we don't spend that money, then the damages from climate change overwhelm infrastructure and living conditions deteriorate for everyone.

And then the temperature rises yet again, the sea levels rise yet again, and the money pit continues to widen and deepen. The cost of staying ahead of it will suck up everything.

I don't see how the capitalist economy will even function after a certain point. There will be some sort of upheaval, an economic re-structuring because our current model cannot be sustained when all available income is funneled into that one endeavor.

Innula Zenovka · Jun 29, 2021

Beebo Brink said:
This is one of the reasons I believe that climate change will de-stabilize our societies. The cost of climate mitigation is ruinous. That's the price tag for ONE CITY. If we spend the money it takes to protect our cities and coastal lands from the effects of climate change (rising sea water, heat, drought, floods), that's money diverted from other urgent needs, almost inevitably education, healthcare, social support services. But if we don't spend that money, then the damages from climate change overwhelm infrastructure and living conditions deteriorate for everyone.

And then the temperature rises yet again, the sea levels rise yet again, and the money pit continues to widen and deepen. The cost of staying ahead of it will suck up everything.

I don't see how the capitalist economy will even function after a certain point. There will be some sort of upheaval, an economic re-structuring because our current model cannot be sustained when all available income is funneled into that one endeavor.

Depends what you mean by "capitalist economy."

To my mind, capitalism will manage just fine, since it's essentially a matter of moving debt around electronically, and governments in the major economies will find ways to mitigate the damage to major cities like Glasgow, just as they could all find money to deal with Covid.

Beebo Brink · Jun 29, 2021

Innula Zenovka said:
Depends what you mean by "capitalist economy."

To my mind, capitalism will manage just fine, since it's essentially a matter of moving debt around electronically, and governments in the major economies will find ways to mitigate the damage to major cities like Glasgow, just as they could all find money to deal with Covid.

For the short term (say the next few decades) that may work. I'm wondering what happens when we reach the point that all available money/labor is going into climate mitigation, but people are working for the equivalent of slave wages. Displaced populations are impoverished and too large in numbers to have any leverage. Social unrest grows to the point where the military is needed to maintain order and prevent uprisings. I think a feudal model of some sort will end up replacing our current structure. And yes, I suppose some vestige of capitalism may still exist in the cracks, but the social order around it will be very different.

Innula Zenovka · Jun 29, 2021

Beebo Brink said:
For the short term (say the next few decades) that may work. I'm wondering what happens when we reach the point that all available money/labor is going into climate mitigation, but people are working for the equivalent of slave wages. Displaced populations are impoverished and too large in numbers to have any leverage. Social unrest grows to the point where the military is needed to maintain order and prevent uprisings. I think a feudal model of some sort will end up replacing our current structure. And yes, I suppose some vestige of capitalism may still exist in the cracks, but the social order around it will be very different.

I guess the question isn't what the total cost is but what particular projects are going to be necessary, and when, and how they're funded (if they are), and by whom.

Things will happen as they happen, and there are so many variables flying around at the moment, there's no saying how things will look in 10 years' time.

I don't, though, see why it has to follow that people must work for the equivalent of slave wages. Everything's funded by debt, whether it's Amazon (debt to shareholders), the response to Covid, the US military or tax cuts for the rich. If labour costs rise, they rise, and they'll be funded by debt too.

Beebo Brink · Jun 29, 2021

Innula Zenovka said:
I don't, though, see why it has to follow that people must work for the equivalent of slave wages.

As larger and larger swaths of land are abandoned, you'll get a concentration of population in smaller areas. There will be more labor than jobs, and as always, pay goes down when there's no scarcity. As agricultural areas are eroded, hit by floods or drought, food will grow in scarcity as well.

There's no way to fully predict the interaction of all the variables, but based on historical examples, the outcome is not likely to be pleasant.