WTF Climate Change News

Casey Pelous

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From the release:

LLNL’s experiment surpassed the fusion threshold by delivering 2.05 megajoules (MJ) of energy to the target, resulting in 3.15 MJ of fusion energy output, demonstrating for the first time a most fundamental science basis for inertial fusion energy (IFE).
That's a net of 1.10 megajoules -- 300 watt hours. Enough to run your hair drier for about 20 minutes.

However, I read another story that said delivering that 2.05 MJ to the target required pumping some 300 MJ through the lasers, which makes sense. The release sort of tippytoes around the issue by claiming

it produced more energy from fusion than the laser energy used to drive it.
[\QUOTE]

It's a hell of a step, but we're a long, long way from Panic in The Oil Companies. (Of course, the old joke is fusion is the technology that will still be 10 years in the future 10 years from now ...)
 
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Arkady Arkright

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Everyday fusion almost certainly won't come in my lifetime, but it may come in my kids' lifetime, and should certainly be here for my grandkids. That's if the oil companies haven't killed it off, of course, and humankind hasn't irreparably FUBAR'd the earth.
 

Soen Eber

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Guess I need to read up more on fusion energy. Sabine Hossenfelder (if I have the name right) is a good source, I've subscribed (but not always watched) for at least a year now. The Undecided series with Matt Ferrell (spelling?) is also good.
 

Beebo Brink

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Beebo Brink

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Beebo Brink

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I did not have this on my Climate Change bingo card....

[A] new study published in the journal Nature suggests that cutting methane may be even more of a challenge—and more urgent—than is currently understood.

Researchers in China, France, the US and Norway found that efforts to reduce CO2 emissions and air pollution will affect the atmospheric process that scrubs methane from the air. That means the planet-heating gas will linger longer and accumulate faster.
 
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GoblinCampFollower

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Misleading hype, as far as the eye can see. This video does a good job of defining the difference between Q Plasma and Q Total. Fusion looks so much better when you only look at Q Plasma (the amount of energy directly input to the target) versus the total amount of energy used to run the experiment.

Thanks for the video! I used the phrase "commercially viable" in my earlier post for a reason, since it implies so much more than just "breaking even." The energy out must be valuable enough to pay for processing the fuel, maintenance, land, paying all those people to operate it, etc. But this video suggests it's even worse than I thought. I was thinking we had Q total a bit over 1, which isn't good enough, but it sounds like that is misinformation.

It's also a concern because I'm sure some experiments are doing fancy "accounting" to say some of their energy in doesn't count as going into the plasma so is excluded from their final Q Plasma calculation.
 
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Beebo Brink

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From my eternally pessimistic view, I see the biggest challenge with fusion being the race for resources. As climate change escalates, more and more money will go toward infrastructure repair, response to the migration of climate refugees, and of course, yet more pandemics. Countries will become de-stabilized by civil unrest and financial upheavals. Under those conditions, how long will governments continue to fund research that doesn't have an immediate promise of ROI?
 

GoblinCampFollower

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From my eternally pessimistic view, I see the biggest challenge with fusion being the race for resources. As climate change escalates, more and more money will go toward infrastructure repair, response to the migration of climate refugees, and of course, yet more pandemics. Countries will become de-stabilized by civil unrest and financial upheavals. Under those conditions, how long will governments continue to fund research that doesn't have an immediate promise of ROI?
Agreed. That's why they are frankly lying. They have been trying to make it sound like it's just a few years off for longer than I've been alive! lol.
 

Bartholomew Gallacher

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From my eternally pessimistic view, I see the biggest challenge with fusion being the race for resources. As climate change escalates, more and more money will go toward infrastructure repair, response to the migration of climate refugees, and of course, yet more pandemics. Countries will become de-stabilized by civil unrest and financial upheavals. Under those conditions, how long will governments continue to fund research that doesn't have an immediate promise of ROI?
Actually we are quite scarce on ressources to do fusion itself. Nuclear fusion reactors do have, amongst others, two big challenges to overcame, namely:

1. Consumption of tritium required to keep the reaction running
2. Neutron radiation during operation.

Tritium already is a big problem; it is non existant on earth. So far there is a global supply of ~20kg, which were mostly extracted from CANDU nuclear power plants during runtime over decades. Since less CANDU reactors are running now than in the past, supply wents down. And this makes also tritium very, very expensive, around 30.000 US$/g at the moment. ITER alone will need for all experiments roughly 20 kg.

So in order to run a fusion reactor for years we do need cheep sources of tritium. Since the moon has tritium, some people thought about mining it there, it is estimated to have roughly 1.1 million tons of it.

The other idea is that the first fusion reactors are also going to do tritium breeding. This is so far highly theoretical, since nobody tried it out yet. And many physicists are quite skeptical about that.

The other is neutron radiation: this is quite powerful. And since the reactor will be exposed to it for years, it is expected to weaken the structure and change its properties. Another unsolved problem.
 
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Caete

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I heard about this. It's GREAT news but I'll hold my celebrations until it's commercially viable.... I suspect all those lasers and magnetic fields are expensive enough so that is still a long way off.
While it is a breakthrough, the news reports are also misleading. It is true that they used 2 MJ of laser light and got 3 MJ of fusion energy, no one is mentioning that they had to use hundreds of megajoules of electricity to produce the 2 MJ of laser light due to how inefficient the lasers are. So more realistically they are getting a 1.5% return on the energy used not the 150% they are declaring. (200 MJ to make 2 MJ laser light to make 3 MJ fusion)

"The NIF scheme has another inefficiency, Betti says. It relies on “indirect drive,” in which the laser blasts the gold can to generate the x-rays that actually spark fusion. Only about 1% of the laser energy gets into the fuel, he says." hence my 200 MJ power used statement.

There's also the issue of how it is done. A power plant based on NIF would need to raise the repetition rate from one shot per day to about 10 per second. One million capsules a day would need to be made, filled, positioned, blasted, and cleared away—a huge engineering challenge.

Science | AAAS
 

Govi

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Haven't vetted this yet but it looks promising:
One of the most fascinating things to me was the reactor's use of the expanding magnetic field (caused by the fusion reaction) to drive electricity in surrounding conductors; direct conversion to usable electric power instead of making heat to make steam to drive a turbine to drive a generator. :birthdayballoons:
 

Beebo Brink

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