Brexit.

[Kara Spengler]

It starts tomorrow at 0930 BST with a statement from Johnson about the proposed WA. There's then a debate on two amendments, one of which is designed to close a loophole that could have allowed him to get away with not asking for an extension (the motion to allow the amendment on the order paper was opposed by the government but nevertheless succeeded quite comfortably), followed by the debate itself.

https://calendar.parliament.uk/calendar/Commons/All/2019/10/19/Daily

.

Thanks, if I skip whatever afterparty there is tomorrow (or make a token appearance) things might still be going on then. If not I am sure to catch the coverage afterwards.

 

[Ariane]

Someone made a spreadsheet to predict the votes on BoJo's deal. It currently stands as 302-297 in favor, with 35 votes unknown.

Yes there is a decent chance this disaster of an agreement could pass!

 

[Sid]

It is at least better then no deal.
And a lot has to be agreed upon in the following rounds of negotiations during the transition period, if whatever agreement is accepted today.

For me, Britain doesn't have to leave, but they do have to come to a conclusion and decide something.
This deal, May's deal, or revoke A50. They have ruled out no deal (about the only Brexit accomplishment of the UK parliament in 3 long years).
The islands have held the continent in hostage long enough by now. Saturday the 19th of October should become Brexit's decision day.

Doing exactly nothing for another three months or longer? No thanks.
The UK had more than enough time to hold new a referendum or a general election, but in fact they did bloody nothing besides being against everything and stick to their personal dreamed unicorns and sugar candy mountains.
It is totally frustrating.

 

[Ariane]

The only way to get the Brexit thing over and done with is a second resolution that results in a "Remain". Otherwise this will go on for decades!

 

[Essence Lumin]

MPs put brakes on Boris Johnson's Brexit deal with rebel amendment

PM says he will press ahead with legislation next week, but is obliged to request extension

www.theguardian.com

 

[Da5id Weatherwax]

Amendment A passes. Immediately after, the bill as amended was accepted without division.

Disgusted with the Tories who sat through responses to the vote from prime minister and two opposition leaders, but stood up en masse and left the chamber as soon as a scot got to her feet.

 

[Daniel Voyager]

 

[Kara Spengler]

The only way to get the Brexit thing over and done with is a second resolution that results in a "Remain". Otherwise this will go on for decades!

Yes, I was watching this or TLDR on that topic this morning.

 

[Sid]

Amendment A passes. Immediately after, the bill as amended was accepted without division.

Disgusted with the Tories who sat through responses to the vote from prime minister and two opposition leaders, but stood up en masse and left the chamber as soon as a scot got to her feet.

Ian Blackford said a lot of sensible things IMHO today about how Scotland has been treated by this UK Tory government.

 

[Daniel Voyager]

Someone had a bad birthday

 

[Sid]

The EU should only give an extension exactly long enough to get an agreement legalized or make a bill to revoke A50.
Not a second extra to do the kick the can dancing. Otherwise a no deal will be the default at Halloween.
That's what I would do if I had a say in the EU.
I've had it with UK politics. Beats me, why they have to postpone debates until next week.

 

[Innula Zenovka]

The EU should only give an extension exactly long enough to get an agreement legalized or make a bill to revoke A50.
Not a second extra to do the kick the can dancing. Otherwise a no deal will be the default at Halloween.
That's what I would do if I had a say in the EU.
I've had it with UK politics. Beats me, why they have to postpone debates until next week.

In order to enact the Withdrawal Agreement, there's an awful lot of enabling legislation to pass into British law.

That has not yet been published (though the text of the bills are presumably ready) and it would be a democratic outrage to try to ram that through Parliament in the next couple of weeks.

There's also been no time for the European Parliament properly to scrutinise the new WA (or if it has been debated there since it was agreed earlier this week, I've missed it) and their approval is required too, I believe.

 

[Innula Zenovka]

This, from today's march in support of a Second Referendum

 

[Sid]

In order to enact the Withdrawal Agreement, there's an awful lot of enabling legislation to pass into British law.

That has not yet been published (though the text of the bills are presumably ready) and it would be a democratic outrage to try to ram that through Parliament in the next couple of weeks.

There's also been no time for the European Parliament properly to scrutinise the new WA (or if it has been debated there since it was agreed earlier this week, I've missed it) and their approval is required too, I believe.

So basically if it was agreed today it could all have been done before Halloween, and now we need tons of extra time?
I don't buy that any longer. I've heard the mantras from the British politicions way to often.
For detailed further negotiations is the transition period, that will need a few extensions.
But what we need now is finally getting to know where British politics stand: May's deal, BoZo's deal, No deal, revoking A50. There ain't more flavors available.
According to the choice there should be an as short as possible extension granted, and that's it. Totally no more room for private dreams of totally different Brexits. One of the 4 above possibilities has to be it. And No Deal is the default if nothing else is choosen next week.
That is how Europe should react this weekend IMHO.
The UK parliament wasted three years of our time already with mostly doing nothing but being against everything. It was not the EU that started the A50 procedure.
This almost endless charade has to stop ASAP.

 

[Caliandris]

Someone had a bad birthday

Whenever I see that man labelled as a Liberal Democrat, my inner voice shouts "THIS week at least" in my head. Anyone more obviously self-serving would be hard to find.

 

[Caliandris]

So basically if it was agreed today it could all have been done before Halloween, and now we need tons of extra time?
I don't buy that any longer. I've heard the mantras from the British politicions way to often.
For detailed further negotiations is the transition period, that will need a few extensions.
But what we need now is finally getting to know where British politics stand: May's deal, BoZo's deal, No deal, revoking A50. There ain't more flavors available.
According to the choice there should be an as short as possible extension granted, and that's it. Totally no more room for private dreams of totally different Brexits. One of the 4 above possibilities has to be it. And No Deal is the default if nothing else is choosen next week.
That is how Europe should react this weekend IMHO.
The UK parliament wasted three years of our time already with mostly doing nothing but being against everything. It was not the EU that started the A50 procedure.
This almost endless charade has to stop ASAP.

The Tories and other millionaires in the government are pretty anxious to leave before the rules about offshoring your wealth come in. The others are equally anxious to stay in until we revoke our leave or have a deal which keeps Northern Ireland peaceful. I'm not sure how the dramatic tension between those two can be diffused, nor if a deal that keeps Ireland peaceful is possible.

 

[Da5id Weatherwax]

Sid, we'd love to oblige you, but you correctly describe 4 options - and none of them command majority support, either in parliament or the electorate. If one of them did, we'd be done with the whole charade already.

Now, the way British politics usually work is that where no course of action commands a majority, the government does nothing. But if they'd applied that principle here, A50 would never have been invoked. We would still be bickering internally about "how to leave" but it would be purely our problem, not something the rest of the EU needed to worry about yet. Between them, Cameron, May and BoJo managed to royally fuck that up, with assistance from the "smug rich gits" who were rubbing their greasy little paws over managing to paint the government into a corner and kick off a process that they knew was going to be a nicely profitable little catastrophe whichever way it turned out.

 

[Sid]

It all should not be EU's problem any more.
We made 2 serious efforts to solve the problem within the red lines the UK wanted.
A50 was a parliament decision. So now (finally) they should grow up, man themselves and take the next step.
They simply don't have the right to hostage Europe any longer, only because of their political self importance and incompetence
Europe has a right to get a decision now or make it themselves. If the UK doesn't choose or withdraw A50 it will be no deal.
It would be a terrible outcome, but at least an outcome that makes it possible to move on. And it would give the UK politicians the time to do nothing but dreaming of ruling the waves and the empire as long as it suits them.

Edit to ad:
But of course I have no say in the matter, and that is maybe a good thing.

 

[Kara Spengler]

So is that all she wrote for today or are they still debating stuff?

 

[Arkady Arkright]

and it would be a democratic outrage to try to ram that through Parliament in the next couple of weeks.

You really believe that mere 'democratic outrage' would prevent either Johnson or Rees-Mogg doing what their paymasters have demanded ??