Brexit.

[Sid]

Seems the PM doesn't know where she is talking about either.

 

[Innula Zenovka]

 

[Innula Zenovka]

European leaders are prepared to offer Britain a three-month extension to Article 50 to prevent parliamentary deadlock triggering a no-deal Brexit.

Under plans being discussed in European capitals the EU would agree to extend Britain’s membership until July to allow time for either a second referendum or to agree a Norway-style soft Brexit.

However, the EU has made clear that the extension would only be offered after parliament had come to a clear conclusion about the type of future relationship it wants.

Evernote Link because Times £wall

 

[Khamon]

How likely are Parliament to come to a clear confusion about the type of future relationship it wants? I know, grammar, but oh and ha ha think I’ll just leave that as it was originally typed. Reminds me of ELO.

 

[detrius]

The radio show of that James O'Brian guy is quite interesting.

 

[Argent Stonecutter]

What part of "withdraw Article 50" is hard to understand?

 

[Bartholomew Gallacher]

A Parliamentary Committee at work -- rather different from PMQs, and possibly more effective:

This once more just proofs this old joke to be real to some extent when there's a storm in the English Channel, that the Brits always heavily pity the Europeans from being unable to reach their glorious island.

I mean this is just downright dumb not understanding what she's been negotiating about and the impacts are going to be. And why for god's sake is she so delusional to think that the other way around there is going to be an extra treatment again? Many countries in the EU are just fed up with the arrogance and attitude the British governments have been showing towards them since decades, so now they do consider it payback time.

 

[craz]

 

[Sid]

Many countries in the EU are just fed up with the arrogance and attitude the British governments have been showing towards them since decades, so now they do consider it payback time.

So far, I'm very surprised how the EU has been willing to bend (again) fot the UK. No wonder some MP's and the PM still think there is are even more profitable deals possible for the UK in the coming years. I had expected a harder line from Brussels.

 

[Bartholomew Gallacher]

The thing is that the EU still wants to be on good terms after the UK left, more or less. The UK remains one of the three European nuclear powers, and one of five nations with a steady chair in the UN's security council, and there's much trade happening between the EU and the UK.

 

[Veritable Quandry]

I have to wonder if the quiet from the EU members right now is designed to not interfere and let Parliament implode on its own.

Anything out of Brussels right now would only feed the hardliners who think a no-deal Brexit is an acceptable option. Staying out gives May room to work on the current deal which, while harmful to all parties, is not the worst possible outcome.

 

[Bartholomew Gallacher]

I have to wonder if the quiet from the EU members right now is designed to not interfere and let Parliament implode on its own..

Why should be there anything coming out of Bruxelles for the time being? The 27 remaining member states of the EU, more precisely their governments, have already agreed to the draft on a special summit. There have been some interruptions by Spain regarding Gibraltar before, but that has been settled for now.

So since all in Bruxelles agreed on the draft and that it is a sad event to witness, they'll stick with it by now, which is normal, adult behaviour. If there had been any wishes for improvement, we would have heard them before the special summit.

The thing is that it is going to be a tough ride now for May anyway.

 

[Innula Zenovka]

Most political analysts think that there is absolutely no chance of the deal being approved by Parliament on the first vote -- estimates vary but it's probably something between 90 and 100 votes short.

What happens next is anyone's guess. In those circumstances, the government has to come back to Parliament within three weeks with its proposals for going forward. Most people expect May will go back to Brussels and return with a slightly revised Political Declaration (i.e. nothing substantive) and then try to obtain a majority for that, but the outcome is completely unknowable at the moment.

Labour hope to bring down the government and force a general election, but even then it's not entirely clear what they propose to do if they win it. Most of the Labour Party (both MPs and party members) want to remain in the EU, so if we win (I'm a Labour Party member) that's probably the most likely outcome, but the Party leadership is unwilling to fight the general election on that basis. I can understand their reasoning though I don't agree with it. But even if Labour were to win or (more likely) form a minority government with the help of the Scottish Nationalists, the road forward is very unclear.

We really are in uncharted territory.

ETA: Paul Mason, in the New Statesman, lays out what would be my preferred option for Labour: How Labour can use Brexit to fatally divide the right

 

[Innula Zenovka]

 

[Chin Rey]

What part of "withdraw Article 50" is hard to understand?

The part that says you can't leave and still keep all your pivileges.

 

[Innula Zenovka]

The part that says you can't leave and still keep all your pivileges.

No, "Withdraw Article 50" means withdrawing the notification that the UK intends to leave the EU. The European Court of Justice heard arguments this week about whether the UK can withdraw the notification unilaterally or whether it would need the consent of the EU27, and the Advocate General will publish his opinion (which is not binding but is generally followed) on December 4, the day Parliament begins its 5-day debate on the Agreement.

So withdrawing Article 50 means not leaving, and retaining your privileges (and responsibilities) that way.

 

[Chin Rey]

No, "Withdraw Article 50" means withdrawing the notification that the UK intends to leave the EU. The European Court of Justice heard arguments this week about whether the UK can withdraw the notification unilaterally or whether it would need the consent of the EU27, and the Advocate General will publish his opinion (which is not binding but is generally followed) on December 4, the day Parliament begins its 5-day debate on the Agreement.

So withdrawing Article 50 means not leaving, and retaining your privileges (and responsibilities) that way.

I refuse to let facts ruin a good snide remark!

 

[Casey Pelous]

Chin seems to be getting quite a fine handle on that whole speaking English thing.

 

[Lianne Marten]

I really don't understand what's going on over there. Every single possible metric shows in clear terms that leaving the EU is a terrible idea and shouldn't happen... but no one is saying "so let's just cancel it and stay in". The fucking opposition leader seems to be an accelerationist who wants it to happen, everything burns down, and then he gets to rule over the ashes. There's no one sane at any level of that government.

I'm so sorry that this is happening to you guys.

 

[mikka]

Just resurfacing to say thank you to Innula.