2020 Democratic Primary

[Jolene Benoir]

I don't think trying to "warn" the Democratic Party was successful in changing anything about the Democratic Party beyond making them more creative with their theatre. The Democratic Party is going where it's going and I'm not sure that any kind of vote is going to stop them. I have to say that the Democratic Party is amazingly effective at vilifying and extinguishing any type of resistance or self-reflection. We learned from our transformation in the early 90's, that core values are more fluid than solid.

This brings us to AOC and Bernie, for that matter. They sure are something. My god, they can inspire a crowd like nobody can. Their story isn't written, yet. They are using their Progressive torches to light up the dungeons of the Democratic Party and show us all of treasure stored there. There's Universal Health Care, blah, blah, blah. We all know these values and believe in them. Amen. It's what they refuse to light up, in the name of the Party, that makes everything pointless... election integrity.

You're right. You work within the system. You become the system. You die within the system. The system is unfolding "Hope and Change 2.0". We're going back before Hillary Clinton, Trump, Sanders, Wikileaks, Manning, Snowden, DWS, Gabbard, Donna Brazile, DNC, CNN, Russia, voter purginging, exit polls, delayed results, caucus, Apps, closed polling places, ... rewind to our happy place. We will have our good friend Joe Biden and an energetic person of color, like AOC, fighting the big bad Republicans to try to get us a Public Option in what promises to be on of the biggest economic disasters this country has ever seen.

You and the majority of this forum, are likely very right. The Democratic Party is a transformative organization. You put in people like Bernie Sanders, AOC, Barack Obama, Jesse Jackson, Elizabeth Warren, Kamala Harris, Julian Castro, and it spits out Joe Biden to thunderous applause and reverence. That is something. It's change.

It's better than Trump. We've made a difference! It might very well be the only thing left standing. Jill Biden may end up being the prophet of swallowing.

I might end up cheering a victory with you. Who knows at this point? Everyone has their limits.

 

[Aeon Jiminy]

I appreciate that my mind is a bit mush from my usual chronic illness and what is probably the flu, but even I can tell this is word salad.

Again: at the risk of repeating myself: nobody is making you vote for Democrats. Nobody can make you do anything.

If you really believe Republican Dominionists are making the better argument, that’s where you belong.

If you don’t believe that, you’ll have to enter into coalitions with people you don’t perfectly like, just to get anything done. If you dislike the rabble and the outsiders and the working class people that have made up such a large part of the center-left coalition, why are you even here?

You could, if you need a libertarian party, actually start building one and pull Right wing support away from the extreme Right. That would actually be useful (from my point of view as an antifascist) and it would keep you away from the Bernie coalition that you don’t really understand.

I hope you're feeling better today.

After last night's debate, it seems even more clear how the chips are going to fall.

"You could, if you need a libertarian party, actually start building one and pull Right wing support away from the extreme Right." It's interesting that you say this. This kind of tomorrow seems a long way off to me, right now. Whatever ends up remaining of the Bernie Sanders movement, I think it might need some elements of a lost Trump people who believed he ever had their best economic interests in mind. Maybe Biden is the answer to break that group apart? There will likely be fracturing in that party as it's core power structure scrambles to take the reins again. It's something to look forward to.

 

[Innula Zenovka]

Whatever ends up remaining of the Bernie Sanders movement, I think it might need some elements of a lost Trump people who believed he ever had their best economic interests in mind.

This raises a point that's been worrying me a lot.

I'm not going to go into a potted history of fascism (though I can do if people would like me to, or if they provoke me too badly) but it's often forgotten that, before Mussolini and Hitler came to power and followed broadly corporatist, pro-business, policies, fascism was a radical movement that brought together disenchanted WWI veterans who wanted radical change but had lost patience with the traditional parties of both the right and the left to achieve it, and both countries' fascist movements contained plenty of former socialists and anarchists and anarcho-syndicalists among their ranks.

Ever since the 1960s and 70s, elements of the far right have been eschewing the sort of uniformed cosplay that attract some of their comrades and, instead, trying to pursue a "third way" or "third wave," containing elements of radical socialist social policy and trying to appeal to the working-class and the poor and dispossessed (normally only so long as they're the right colour or have the right passport, of course).

The Italian Casapound Group would be an example of this.

Whoever the Democratic candidate is, and however the elections turn out, it seems to me that, come this time next year, the US is going to have a lot of disenchanted white radicals who had previously supported either Trump or Sanders, unhappy either that their candidate lost or, if he wins, that his policies are failing to be adopted (or if they are, that they don't work) because, as they see it, of the machinations of the corrupt Democratic Party, the fake mainstream media and, at least for the previous Bernie supporters, because of low-information older black voters, all in the middle of a world recession and a social and medical crisis caused by Covid-19.

So, however things work out over the next few months, I foresee a number of Bernie Bros and MAGA deplorables joining together to form a loose radical right alliance, which may become yet another disruptive force in US politics.

 

[Pamela]

I realize I will get scoffed at again but:

 

[Anya Ristow]

I guess Andrew didn't do the math on that one

 

[Eunoli]

I guess Andrew didn't do the math on that one

If its Warren I'll be super happy.

 

[Cristiano]

If its Warren I'll be super happy.

I think she is better off in the Senate at this point.

 

[Beebo Brink]

If its Warren I'll be super happy.

VP would be a demotion for her, not a promotion. She has a more powerful position in the Senate.

 

[Eunoli]

VP would be a demotion for her, not a promotion. She has a more powerful position in the Senate.

I think it would put her in position for a 2024 run - and I think that Biden will be likely to listen to and involve his VP. I'd like to see someone as smart as she is in that position.

 

[Pamela]

We cannot spare any senators. Otherwise, Kamala.
So, Val Demmings or Susan Rice.

 

[Salome]

We cannot spare any senators. Otherwise, Kamala.
So, Val Demmings or Susan Rice.

I would pay money to watch Susan Rice eviscerate Pence. But I also think Duckworth should be in the running.

 

[Salome]

One of the most powerful endorsement spots I’ve seen.

 

[danielravennest]

We cannot spare any senators. Otherwise, Kamala.
So, Val Demmings or Susan Rice.

My prediction is Harris. She's a younger generation, and a woman of color, all things that Biden is not, so balances the ticket. Since California is strongly Democrat, their governor will appoint another one to fill her seat, or they will have a special election. Either way it won't lose a seat in the Senate.

 

[Aribeth Zelin]

My prediction is Harris. She's a younger generation, and a woman of color, all things that Biden is not, so balances the ticket. Since California is strongly Democrat, their governor will appoint another one to fill her seat, or they will have a special election. Either way it won't lose a seat in the Senate.

I still think she'd be the best choice to fix the DoJ

 

[Pamela]

My prediction is Harris. She's a younger generation, and a woman of color, all things that Biden is not, so balances the ticket. Since California is strongly Democrat, their governor will appoint another one to fill her seat, or they will have a special election. Either way it won't lose a seat in the Senate.

yes I keep forgetting that! She is my choice, then. she would make a good president.

 

[Cristiano]

My prediction is Harris. She's a younger generation, and a woman of color, all things that Biden is not, so balances the ticket. Since California is strongly Democrat, their governor will appoint another one to fill her seat, or they will have a special election. Either way it won't lose a seat in the Senate.

The early prediction was Stacy Abrams. I think Harris would be a better Attorney General - she's a killer.

 

[Eunoli]

The early prediction was Stacy Abrams. I think Harris would be a better Attorney General - she's a killer.

I like Stacy, but I think we need a more experienced hand at the job - especially now. To be honest, I'd love to see her moved into party leadership.

 

[Cristiano]

I like Stacy, but I think we need a more experienced hand at the job - especially now. To be honest, I'd love to see her moved into party leadership.

I don't know that much about her - I personally would like to see Susan Rice as VP.

 

[Pamela]

My Bernie or Bust College student nephew sent me this:

I just wrote out my thoughts on an online forum for why I’ll never vote for Biden, if he’s the nominee:

If Biden is the nominee we have 3 options: refuse to vote, write in Bernie, or show support for the PSL and vote for Gloria La Riva.

On every single issue Joe Biden, a proven liar, is either unimpressive or atrocious. Regarding foreign policy, he helped orchestrate the Iraq War and expand the drone war and sat idly by as Libya was destroyed. Regarding climate change, Biden’s plan - if he even sticks to it - is a half measure that will barely take us in the right direction. Regarding immigration, Obama deported ~2 million immigrants and set up the camps. Regarding abortion, Biden supported the Hyde Amendment and smeared Anita Hill in order to help Clarence Thomas, a radical conservative who threatens Roe v. Wade, reach the Supreme Court. Regarding race, Joe Biden was a segregationist and good friend of Strom Thurmond to the point that he eulogized the man. Joe Biden wants to keep marijuana illegal & wrote the 1994 Crime Bill, making him a proponent of the War on Drugs and ally of the prison industrial complex. Joe Biden has never shown any real support to unions, only lip service. On gay rights, Biden was against gay marriage for most of his career only until it was politically expedient for the Democratic establishment to support gay rights.

On every single issue, Bernie is superior to Biden; on every single issue, Biden is similar to Trump.

 

[Veritable Quandry]

Ohio Governor DeWine tried to get the state courts to delay the primary. They refused. So he just ordered all polling stations closed for public health reasons. Interesting times.