Election Day 2024 🇺🇸💙🗳️

[Sid]

Now for the bootlicking to begin.

When he had written " Wishing @realDonaldTrump all success in lining up my pockets even more", he would have been honest. Now it is just blah blah blah.

 

[Noodles]

Seriously? In this world of information fucking overload, how can anyone not know this???

 

[Noodles]

Now they are on the right side. "Me, myself and I" are the most important values for many just like "I want it all and I want it now." (Sounds a bit like Trump, huh?)

When you scrape away all of the cruft, all of it, we would discover that Ayn Rand (and Libertarianism) is in fact, the worst person to ever grace this fucking planet.

 

[Innula Zenovka]

A bleak view from the UK -- don't know what people make of it, but I've always suspected, after applying Occam's razor, that a sizeable proportion of the US electorate is perfectly on board with fascism, at least so long as they don't think they'll be on the receiving end of it.

What happens if and when Trump starts to enact his policies may, of course, change their minds.

To truly understand why they failed, in other words, the real thing America’s left needs to understand is something they’re apt to struggle with far more, which is why Trump didn’t fail. Because, if you don’t believe that an American majority truly wants all the ugliness, sexism, oligarchy and dysfunction that his candidacy gleefully embodied, then what’s the thing, that germ of popular neglected truth, that made so many millions of utterly normal people cheerfully look past it all? No longer can any of us tell ourselves they were all fooled, or deluded, or just plain ignorant. They knew what they were doing, and they did it. Time to swallow that bitter pill. Good luck in keeping it down.

Face it, liberals, this is what millions wanted

The left have run out of things to explain away Trump’s success and must accept the hard truth

www.thetimes.com

Evernote Link

 

[Beebo Brink]

A bleak view from the UK -- don't know what people make of it, but I've always suspected, after applying Occam's razor, that a sizeable proportion of the US electorate is perfectly on board with fascism, at least so long as they don't think they'll be on the receiving end of it.

That's my takeaway as well. It wasn't the Dem messenger that was rejected, it was the message.

 

[Beebo Brink]

Our mistake was to think we lived in a better country than we do | Rebecca Solnit | The Guardian

Our mistake was to think we lived in a better country than we do. Our mistake was to see the joy, the extraordinary balance between idealism and pragmatism, the energy, the generosity, the coalition-building of the Kamala Harris campaign and think that it must triumph over the politics of lies and resentment. Our mistake was to think that racism and misogyny were not as bad as they are, whether it applied to who was willing to vote for a supremely qualified Black woman or who was willing to vote for an adjudicated rapist and convicted criminal who admires Hitler. Our mistake was to think we could row this boat across the acid lake before the acid dissolved it.

 

[GoblinCampFollower]

I am sure that you do know much better from personal experience why most Americans choose to do so. Fact is they did, and by a big margin. So the bitter truth is that people don't care about the person's stance but instead his message. IMHO for them Trump delivered in 2016, so they have trust in him he will deliver again. Harris on the other hand promised to do stuff, but was quite vague in it. The other point is that they've got more trust in the GOP to improve economy.

I am pretty sure that if by a devilish miracle Adolf Hitler would come back to life as natural born American citizen, but aside with all history intact but by miracle again judicial clean slate in the US, and he would run for US presidency promising "I know how to make the economy great again, just look what I did in Germany back then", "America first!", also telling "Immigrants? I know how to deal with them! Communists and Liberals? I will deal with them, too!" and military "Look how my army back then quite scarce on resources performed so well, so I can do wonders with the American army!" as promises chances are high he would get elected by a big margin.

Back then in July 2024 several op eds were written why Harris was the necessary choice but not the best candidate. Unfortunately these comments were right, e.g. Column: California's Kamala Harris was the necessary choice but not the best candidate

And also while Harris started quite well into her campaign, she really crumbled during October and made grave mistakes.

When e.g. Harris was asked on "The View", a cuddly talk show by Sunny Hostin she answered "Uh. There is not a thing that comes to mind."

This was pure gold for Trump, and he played at his rallies then.

As I've said before, the belief that he was good for the economy is very willfully ignorant. He inherited a good economy from Obama then passed the COVID shit show to Biden. ...Biden has already mostly fixed the economy. Trump will swoop in just in time to take credit and act like he did something. But I do acknowledge how this myth helped Trump so much and is counter intuitive to refute for many people. Too many people just think the way the economy is doing NOW is a reflection of who is in charge NOW. They can't think past that intuition.

Maybe you could make the argument that Kamala didn't hammer out clear enough policies for people who want real substance but also didn't have the cute sound bites for low information voters. Obama had good policy proposals and did a great job with simple sound bites for dumb people. Kamala fell a bit short on both. Trump at least had the sound bites.

But even so, I think we are trying to kind of polish a turd backing into their reasoning. It's a lot of work to try to to "steel man" how this happened.

As Beebo and Innula put it:

...a sizeable proportion of the US electorate is perfectly on board with fascism, at least so long as they don't think they'll be on the receiving end of it.

That's my takeaway as well. It wasn't the Dem messenger that was rejected, it was the message.

I think this is a core issue. I really think there was at least 30 million US voters who knowingly voted for fascism to some degree. Many of his other voters were just life long Republicans who were in denial that this time was different because the right wing media they consume gave them no reason to think otherwise. Ignorance and power of denial were also big in this race. Tens of millions would have voted for ANYONE with an "R" next to their name.

I think a lot of the second group heard all the concerns about Trump but just dismissed it all as "exaggerated" or "overhyped." As I've said before, a complete list of Trump's crimes strikes many people as "exaggerated" because it just sounds too crazy. It's too much for their minds to process, so they don't! This seems to be especially true of a lot of elderly republicans who just can't believe Trump could really be that bad. This is definitely true of my parents. They are not fascists, but they are mostly oblivious to the way the Republican party has changed since 2016 because the Wall Street Journal and Fox News won't tell them. ...and they just think I'm "exaggerating!" They aren't huge fans of Trump, but refuse to vote democrat because that's how they voted for +50 years and they can't change now! All their friends are the same way, so they are in bubble.

Another huge issue was the 15-20 million people who probably would have voted for Kamala except they sat out because they were also in a lot of denial and didn't really grasp what was at stake. Many said they didn't feel "inspired" by Kamala. Many of these people are mostly apolitical and frankly often quite dumb. I can try to be charitable and assume most were just too busy with their normal lives to pay attention. Many of these people were going to sit out no matter the democratic candidate. Some of them might have voted for a louder, more "screaming liberal" who frankly would have alienated more centrists so likely wouldn't have helped overall.

 

[Veritable Quandry]

The thing is we all don't know. And why don't we know? Because the Democrats went after Biden stepped down the easy route: they went with VP Harris, who took the barrel of money Biden so far collected and continued to campaign.

So other potential willing candidates never had a chance to throw their hat into the ring, because they had no opportunity to make their desire known and to present themselves to the party.

It could have been somebody would have emerged then more appealing and with no ties to Biden's administration. We will never know, because the Dems went the easy route - and that route failed. They denied themselves the chance for internal competition here.



I am sure that you do know much better from personal experience why most Americans choose to do so. Fact is they did, and by a big margin. So the bitter truth is that people don't care about the person's stance but instead his message. IMHO for them Trump delivered in 2016, so they have trust in him he will deliver again. Harris on the other hand promised to do stuff, but was quite vague in it. The other point is that they've got more trust in the GOP to improve economy.

I am pretty sure that if by a devilish miracle Adolf Hitler would come back to life as natural born American citizen, but aside with all history intact but by miracle again judicial clean slate in the US, and he would run for US presidency promising "I know how to make the economy great again, just look what I did in Germany back then", "America first!", also telling "Immigrants? I know how to deal with them! Communists and Liberals? I will deal with them, too!" and military "Look how my army back then quite scarce on resources performed so well, so I can do wonders with the American army!" as promises chances are high he would get elected by a big margin.

Back then in July 2024 several op eds were written why Harris was the necessary choice but not the best candidate. Unfortunately these comments were right, e.g. Column: California's Kamala Harris was the necessary choice but not the best candidate

And also while Harris started quite well into her campaign, she really crumbled during October and made grave mistakes.

When e.g. Harris was asked on "The View", a cuddly talk show by Sunny Hostin she answered "Uh. There is not a thing that comes to mind."

This was pure gold for Trump, and he played at his rallies then.

It's perhaps comforting to think that Harris and the Democrats are to blame. She wasn't a good enough candidate, she was anointed instead of elected, however you want to handwave it. But that's all bullshit.

To be precise this is the exact brand of misogyny that millions of Americans embraced. When the country embraces fascism, it's because the woman wasn't good enough. And she was biracial, and not in a half-white way. Stop fucking excusing the racists and misogynists. Stop fucking doing their work for them you fucking tool.

 

[Madi Perth]

I'm cool with this. Really, I'm just fine......

 

[Beebo Brink]

One of the inherent disadvantages of being Dem/liberal is that we have empathy for large groups outside our core identity, whatever that might be. I'm well past the age of having to worry about access to abortion, but I hurt for all the women in the U.S. and what is happening to them. I worry about families who will be broken apart and deported, I worry about the scraps of government assistance that will dry up for people I've never met. I worry about generations of people who will be buffeted by climate change, long after I'm gone.

This election loss hurts so much because I know it's going to hurt other people quite badly. Maybe what I need to keep in mind is that so many of them aren't the least bit worried about the damage Trump will wreak on them, whether they outright voted for him or just didn't vote at all.

My next-door neighbors -- an illiterate man and his disabled wife -- live on food stamps and SSI, but had no interest in voting. And if they did vote, I'm guessing it would be for Trump anyway. So why am I sitting here with my stomach in knots worrying about them?

I need to start focusing on me and my family, not everyone else's family. Doesn't mean I have to stop caring entirely, but I really do need to stop caring SO MUCH that it feels like I'm physically sick. This is what Americans wanted, this what they got, and my priority will have to be navigating the dangers that directly affect me and mine.

 

[Noodles]

I think a lot of the second group heard all the concerns about Trump but just dismissed it all as "exaggerated" or "overhyped." As I've said before, a complete list of Trump's crimes strikes many people as "exaggerated" because it just sounds too crazy. It's too much for their minds to process, so they don't! This seems to be especially true of a lot of elderly republicans who just can't believe Trump could really be that bad.

Yeah, I mentioned I think in this thread something about blocking Nextdoor.com

These types seem to be there. People who are still using two years ago excuses like "TDS (Trump Derrangement Syndrome" and "Fake News".

They are like grade schoolers too. You ask for any sort of sourcing or evidence and they just name call.

If you show them clips or links or whatever of Trump ACTIVELY SAYING OR DOING whatever they just double down on the fake news brainwashing schtick.

 

[Noodles]

It's perhaps comforting to think that Harris and the Democrats are to blame. She wasn't a good enough candidate, she was anointed instead of elected, however you want to handwave it. But that's all bullshit.

If the Democrats are to blame is for dragging their collective asses for four years dealing with this criminal piece of shit and all of his criminal ass traitors from the Capitol attack.

They could have dealt with it through the proper channels with proper justice. It will never happen now.

 

[GoblinCampFollower]

Something else this got me thinking about is how a lot of the "help" given to distraught people is assuring them it will get better. I have less knowledge of how to reassure people when their concern will not get better. I can imagine a few best case scenarios that puts us back on track but we do need to prepare for worse cases scenarios as well. Toxic positivity is not going to help distraught people. It makes sense to start thinking about how to live quietly under a hostile regime.

Yeah, I mentioned I think in this thread something about blocking Nextdoor.com

These types seem to be there. People who are still using two years ago excuses like "TDS (Trump Derangement Syndrome" and "Fake News".

They are like grade schoolers too. You ask for any sort of sourcing or evidence and they just name call.

If you show them clips or links or whatever of Trump ACTIVELY SAYING OR DOING whatever they just double down on the fake news brainwashing schtick.

Yeah... they don't grasp that throwing insults isn't a refutation. And I think we should repurpose "TDS" to be "Trump Denial Syndrome." They are in complete denial of what he really is.

 

[Cristiano]

 

[Sid]

Just seen on temu.com.

 

[GoblinCampFollower]

One other thing I'm really sick of hearing is that democrats "abandoned the working class".... they didn't abandon policies like healthcare, infrastructure and unions that are good for the working class. ...this belief is really code for hating how democrats ALSO try to help people of color and gays. I also heard NPR just now talking about how Kamala did about as well in working class neighborhoods in Pennsylvania as Biden did. The bigger loss was in richer neighborhoods. Any notion that democrats have to turn their backs on minorities to help the working class need to be called out.

 

[Bartholomew Gallacher]

It's perhaps comforting to think that Harris and the Democrats are to blame. She wasn't a good enough candidate, she was anointed instead of elected, however you want to handwave it. But that's all bullshit.

To be precise this is the exact brand of misogyny that millions of Americans embraced. When the country embraces fascism, it's because the woman wasn't good enough. And she was biracial, and not in a half-white way. Stop fucking excusing the racists and misogynists. Stop fucking doing their work for them you fucking tool.

You are now leaving the plane of sane, coherent thoughts. Harris has lost. But the country embraces fascism not because the woman wasn't good enough, but mostly because the Democrats' candidate wasn't good enough!

If Kamala Harris would have been a man, but with same history and actions he would have lost most likely as well.

So stop protecting here Harris for her gender trying to prevent taking a closer look at what happened, because this leads to nowhere aside making the same mistakes again in 2028. It were her actions in the end of the rally when the honeymoon phase was over which really brought this all upon us, and these actions have got nothing to do with her gender.

 

[Sid]

You are now leaving the plane of sane, coherent thoughts. Harris has lost. But the country embraces fascism not because the woman wasn't good enough, but mostly because the Democrats' candidate wasn't good enough!

I think it is mainly because a large chunk of the country embraces neo fascism because they think they can gain from it somehow and the Dems simply don't do neo fascism (rightfully so).

 

[Cindy Claveau]

 

[Veritable Quandry]

Democrats absolutely need to examine the campaign. But if your answer is someone else could have won who you conveniently can't name then you're a misogynistic piece of shit.

The more pressing question is why America turned so readily to fascism. And the elephants in the room include Bezos and Musk. People complain about Democratic messaging when media was suppressing it and boosting Trump. Age was important until it wasn't. Minor gaffs elevated to scandal while glossing over Trump's words and actions.

It is no mystery why Saudi and Russian money helped Musk acquire Twitter. Globally there are people trying to break things and stir up chaos, then use useful idiots like Trump to point the masses.

If you think the brown woman is the problem then you are in fact part of the fucking problem. Name fucking names or shut the fuck up. Who would have won? Jesus Fucking Christ could not have won agaist these headwinds.

It is not the woman. It is the fucking fascists.