The Russia-Ukraine War has begun

[Innula Zenovka]

The problem is here in the US we have a real and somewhat unacknowledged problem with police of all types seizing money and assets from all classes of society without trial or even charges against the owner under civil asset forfeiture. And the courts have upheld the practice as constitutional even though citizens when informed of particular incidents say that can't be real or how is that legal.
AOC is one of the few politicians who acknowledge the problem is real, so in my mind she gets real credit for that.

Yes, I understand that, but I don't see how her voting one way or the other on a bill to sanction Russian oligarchs would either help solve the problem or make it worse.

The best I can some up with is that, since she knew the motion would pass anyway, she thought it was an opportunity to draw attention to the issue of civil forfeiture, but that seems to me pretty thin, to say the least.

 

[Innula Zenovka]

 

[Samantha Fuller]

Yes, I understand that, but I don't see how her voting one way or the other on a bill to sanction Russian oligarchs would either help solve the problem or make it worse.

The best I can some up with is that, since she knew the motion would pass anyway, she thought it was an opportunity to draw attention to the issue of civil forfeiture, but that seems to me pretty thin, to say the least.

Because that particular bill went beyond freezing assets to seizing them. And thus uses the exact same arguments as Civil Asset Forfeiture as abused in the US against US citizens.

by the way the use of the wording of Sanction against Oligarchs grates on my nerves because i hear the title of a old movie called the Igor Sanction and it makes me think we are contemplating assassinations.

 

[Innula Zenovka]

 

[WolfEyes]

Farm vehicles removed from Ukraine by Russians who find they've been remotely disabled (msn.com)

Russian troops in the occupied city of Melitopol have stolen all the equipment from a farm equipment dealership -- and shipped it to Chechnya, according to a Ukrainian businessman in the area.

But after a journey of more than 700 miles, the thieves were unable to use any of the equipment -- because it had been locked remotely.

Over the past few weeks there's been a growing number of reports of Russian troops stealing farm equipment, grain and even building materials - beyond widespread looting of residences. But the removal of valuable agricultural equipment from a John Deere dealership in Melitopol speaks to an increasingly organized operation, one that even uses Russian military transport as part of the heist.

 

[Innula Zenovka]

 

[Bartholomew Gallacher]

Here somebody argues most of Russia's nuclear arsenal is probably useless, because annual maintenance in the states costs 10 million dollar per warhead. So 10 billion alone there. And now think about that in relation to the Russian military budget...

 

[Innula Zenovka]

Here somebody argues most of Russia's nuclear arsenal is probably useless, because annual maintenance in the states costs 10 million dollar per warhead. So 10 billion alone there. And now think about that in relation to the Russian military budget...

 

[Innula Zenovka]

Thread

 

[Innula Zenovka]

 

[Innula Zenovka]

Thread -- the Russian army seems to be suffering from a really serious shortage of tires for its trucks

 

[Bartholomew Gallacher]

I've just stumbled recently over an article which discusses the obsession of the Russians with Nazis. It was arguing that in Russia the term Nazi underwent a shift of meaning, which is Russian only and not heared much outside the country.

For all of us Nazi is referring to this:

While for Russians nowaday Nazi is now a synonym for enemy. So when they are talking about Nazis they do really mean what they do perceive as enemies to their country. It doesn't matter if they really do follow Nazi ideologies or not, as long as they are enemies they are Nazis for the Russians, this is now totally interchangeable.

So in short this:

And so on... all are above are Nazis in the shift of usage that term underwent in Russia. What really amazes me is that this difference in used terminology is only discussed rarely in our press coverage, because it would help a lot understanding better what the Russians actually do mean.

Key to understanding the metaphor’s power in Russia is understanding the Soviet world’s very different experience of WWII and the Nazis, says Masha Lipman, a senior associate at the PONARS Eurasia program at George Washington University.

“In the West, WWII is in large part about the Holocaust, the ultimate evil of the ‘Final Solution,’ and this defined the development of the West after the war,” she says. “In Russia, the Great Patriotic War is connected with the assault on the USSR, the terrible losses among Soviet citizens [of all nationalities], and the great victory over Nazi Germany.

“Official rhetoric makes no reference to the Holocaust. Rather it was a victory over the evil force that tried to destroy the Soviet Union, not a force that was devoted to exterminating the Jews,” she says. “Broadly speaking, the symbolism is different. That has become much more graphic and distinct in recent years as Russia got involved in memory wars with the West.”

That can be seen in public understanding. Nina, a Moscow pensioner who follows the news, says she believes a Nazi is “a person who thinks one nation is above all others and the rest should be killed. It is difficult to figure out exactly what exactly is happening in Ukraine right now. I don’t follow it closely, but there were definitely Nazis in Ukraine. Not the whole population of course, but some squads.”

Russia says it’s fighting Nazis in Ukraine. It doesn’t mean what you think.

Why do Russians seem to believe the Kremlin that Ukraine needs to be “denazified”? It may turn on the post-Soviet understanding of what a “Nazi” is.

www.csmonitor.com

 

[Innula Zenovka]

Russia says Israel supports neo-Nazis in row over Ukraine

Russia's foreign ministry accused Israel on Tuesday of supporting neo-Nazis in Ukraine, escalating a row that began when Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov claimed Adolf Hitler had Jewish origins.

www.reuters.com

 

[Veritable Quandry]

Could cross-post in the Catholic Church thread, but there is no longer any pretense of a moral foundation. Carpet bombing a city full of civilians? But NATO's emails!

Pope Defends Putin and Blames NATO for Brutal War in Ukraine

The pontiff defended Putin and claimed—without foundation—that it was “others who created the conflict” in Ukraine.

www.thedailybeast.com

Francis veered towards conspiracy theory as he blamed the international community for instigating the war. “You cannot think that a free state can make war on another free state,” he said. “In Ukraine, it seems that it was others who created the conflict. I am pessimistic but we must do everything possible to stop the war.” The pope then said that in a state visit to Rome by Hungarian Prime Minister Viktor Orban, he was told, “the Russians have a plan, that everything will end on May 9” without giving any further explanation. May 9 is the day Russia celebrates its liberation and the end of World War II.

But as the article makes clear, his solution to "stop the war" is to stop supplying Ukraine with weapons to defend themselves. Fuck this holier-than-thou asshole. This is not what moral leadership looks like.

 

[Arkady Arkright]

Pope Defends Putin and Blames NATO for Brutal War in Ukraine

The pontiff defended Putin and claimed—without foundation—that it was “others who created the conflict” in Ukraine.

www.thedailybeast.com

But as the article makes clear, his solution to "stop the war" is to stop supplying Ukraine with weapons to defend themselves. Fuck this holier-than-thou asshole. This is not what moral leadership looks like.

Check my signature...
For 'King' read 'Putin', and for 'priest' read 'Francis'.

 

[Argent Stonecutter]

Sono Pazzi Questi Romani.

 

[Innula Zenovka]

 

[Bartholomew Gallacher]

But as the article makes clear, his solution to "stop the war" is to stop supplying Ukraine with weapons to defend themselves. Fuck this holier-than-thou asshole. This is not what moral leadership looks like.

You're wrong, this is pragmatic and quite logical outcome of certain assumptions at the beginning when having a train of thoughts. The pope clearly believes that the Ukraine will not be able to win that war, because he views Russia as superior in all important militaric areas. Full stop.

Under this pretense, which the pope clearly has and firmly believes into, delivering weapons and ammunition to the Ukraine has only one effect, namely delaying the inevitable with an avoidable death toll to be paid as price.

So for the pope it's not logical to fight and lengthen a war which cannot be won, given that this increases the death toll by a great margin for a lost cause.

The pope up and foremost cares about one thing - keeping as many people as possible alive, and preventing them from dying. That may be not a popular view about the events, but it's a possible and logical view if you really believe in that Russia will do with Ukraine anyway what they want to do in the end.

And at the end of the day one thing is clear: victories will become meaningless and vanish, but death is permanent. And it's better to live in disgrace, but stay alive, than to die with honors.

That's his thinking, not mine nor my opinion. But it's a way of thinking probably many people have, and it's quite logical as well.

 

[Aribeth Zelin]

You're wrong, this is pragmatic and quite logical outcome of certain assumptions at the beginning when having a train of thoughts. The pope clearly believes that the Ukraine will not be able to win that war, because he views Russia as superior in all important militaric areas. Full stop.

Under this pretense, which the pope clearly has and firmly believes into, delivering weapons and ammunition to the Ukraine has only one effect, namely delaying the inevitable with an avoidable death toll to be paid as price.

So for the pope it's not logical to fight and lengthen a war which cannot be won, given that this increases the death toll by a great margin for a lost cause.

The pope up and foremost cares about one thing - keeping as many people as possible alive, and preventing them from dying. That may be not a popular view about the events, but it's a possible and logical view if you really believe in that Russia will do with Ukraine anyway what they want to do in the end.

And at the end of the day one thing is clear: victories will become meaningless and vanish, but death is permanent. And it's better to live in disgrace, but stay alive, than to die with honors.

That's his thinking, not mine nor my opinion. But it's a way of thinking probably many people have, and it's quite logical as well.

I suppose, if you aren't reading history right, this would make sense, but we already know that Putin will not stop until he is stopped.

Whether its by his own people, or by us [the rest of the world], its only a matter of time until he goes after the rest of Europe, and then possibly the rest of Asia, then Africa, or the Americas.

He's* already said that anywhere that Russian is spoke, is Russia. How much clearer must he get?

*Or maybe its the Russia state media, or another spokesman - regardless, its effectively him so....

 

[Veritable Quandry]

Given what Russia has done in Syria, Georgia, Chechnya, and so may other places it is clear the surrender will not stop the slaughter. The pope is wrong and has abandoned any moral position. His entire job title implies that death IS NOT the end, and that it is or should be a moral imperative to stand up to evil and protect the innocent at all cost. This is his failure to step up and lead when times call for clear guidance and to stand up to aggression.

Fuck the excuses. He claims to be a spiritual and moral leader. This is the time to walk the walk. He's a fucking coward and a poser and like so many popes before him he is letting evil triumph for convenience and politics.