CPAC Stage Shaped Like Nazi Symbol

[Innula Zenovka]

This was posted in another thread, but it can go here too

Tl;dr -- the design firm, who primarily work with left and liberal causes, say it's a complete coincidence

Was the CPAC 2021 Stage Intentionally Shaped Like a Nazi Symbol?

Internet sleuths noticed the stage at the conservative gathering resembled a symbol used by hate groups.

www.snopes.com

Design firm takes responsibility for CPAC stage controversy

Design Foundry said it ‘had no idea’ that the stage resembled a Nazi symbol, ‘nor was there any intention to create something that did.’

forward.com

 

[Eunoli]

Even if it was an unintentional error, they /left/ it that way after it was pointed out. Many of the attendees no doubt recognized it right away as they are white supremacists.

 

[Soen Eber]

Even if it was an unintentional error, they /left/ it that way after it was pointed out. Many of the attendees no doubt recognized it right away as they are white supremacists.

While I'm sure a few recognized it, most people really don't look or pay attention to stuff in the background. I mean, a lot of people didn't even see the gorilla playing basketball in that one semi-famous video.

 

[Romana]

Even if it was an unintentional error, they /left/ it that way after it was pointed out. Many of the attendees no doubt recognized it right away as they are white supremacists.

And before that, the organizers, etc. Lots of white supremacists there, too.

 

[Aribeth Zelin]

I'd wager that the firm was told, 'Can you make it look like this?' especially since the fascists are trying to put the blame on them.

 

[Dakota Tebaldi]

I actually don't mind this. I like it when assholes identify themselves with symbols. It makes them easier to recognize.

This was the same thing that I always said for the longest time - and I still think it's a fine philosophy to a point.

But I'm starting to wonder if we're past that point anymore.

Yeah, it's useful when the crazy loon extremists do the courtesy of proudly identifying themselves so everyone can laugh at them. And, "shame culture" - i.e., laughing at the loony extremists - has some defensible merits. But....what happens when the crazy loon extremists aren't, well, "extremists" anymore? What if there's a significant number of people, people with appreciable power and social influence, who now who see them and instead of laughing are like, "hey those boys are all right, they're on our side"? If what I'm laughing at turns out to be a windstorm, the only fool is me.

I'm not trying to be preachy or anything so sorry if it sounds that way. I'm just saying, things are changing, or have changed. Stuff I used to be like "right on!" about, these days I'm not so confident about anymore. It feels awful.

 

[Innula Zenovka]

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ETA -- people do make mistakes now and again

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[Aribeth Zelin]

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I disagree with him for a reason. Okay, I have done some design work for other people, and custom art in general. Designers were almost certainly told 'This is what we want.' and the job of the designer is to make it happen.

It wouldn't be just a 'Design us a stage this size, either.'

Now, sometimes, a designer will go, 'I don't think this works, but what do you think about -this-' and its possible they will go, 'Oh, I like that much better' but more likely it will be, 'No, I want my design idea.'

See my above post.

 

[Innula Zenovka]

I disagree with him for a reason. Okay, I have done some design work for other people, and custom art in general. Designers were almost certainly told 'This is what we want.' and the job of the designer is to make it happen.

It wouldn't be just a 'Design us a stage this size, either.'

Now, sometimes, a designer will go, 'I don't think this works, but what do you think about -this-' and its possible they will go, 'Oh, I like that much better' but more likely it will be, 'No, I want my design idea.'

See my above post.

Yes, but that leaves us with the apparently unequivocal statement issued by the design firm, who seem to be a well-established and reputable business with a large portfolio of left-wing and liberal clients, saying it was their idea and they had no idea about its associations with the Croatian SS (and, I think, a Dutch SS division, too).

We can speculate all we like about what might have been going on behind the scenes, but without any evidence to the contrary, I don't see how we can go behind their statement, at least not without heading off into conspiratorial thinking and what Richard Hofstadter called the paranoid style of thinking in American politics (which certainly isn't the unique preserve of the far-right).

There may or may not have been some sinister intent behind the shape of the stage, but without some actual evidence that the designers were aware of the design's significance or that they were told to use that particular layout -- some emails or texts or something, or a statement from someone who was involved in the planning -- I don't see that there's any way of knowing one way or the other.

I mean, were you, as a designer, aware of the shape's significance before all this blew up?

I wasn't and while I've certainly read quite a bit about the Holocaust (particularly the "Holocaust by bullets" and the anti-partisan operations) I'd not come across it before, probably because I've primarily read about what happened in Poland, Ukraine, the Baltic Republics and Belarus, rather than a thousand miles or so to the south.

Meanwhile, as I've said in another thread, I'm far more worried about who the speakers were, what they were saying, and their continuing (and now completely open) attempts to overturn the democratic process than I am about the shape of the stage they were standing on.

 

[Noodles]

I feel like it was completely coincidental. I know it falls into anecdotal, but I've never even seen that symbol before this story for one, much less knew it was some sort of Nazi symbol.

The design itself isn't totally impractical as I've seen mention (I think on Reddit). The little side divots let people surround the stage more for photos or even just audience, and you could stick other VIP type people on those little side stages during any talks (no idea if they did this).

The design itself at it's core isn't the shape, it's partially that way due to the carpet colors, but the contrasting colors just help with making the stage look less bland. It also creates a visual path for anyone ont he stage that might do a little walk out and wave bit. Here's a crappy mockup.

I mean, I hate defending these guys, but it feels like a big distraction nothing story honestly.

 

[Romana]

I disagree with him for a reason. Okay, I have done some design work for other people, and custom art in general. Designers were almost certainly told 'This is what we want.' and the job of the designer is to make it happen.

It wouldn't be just a 'Design us a stage this size, either.'

Now, sometimes, a designer will go, 'I don't think this works, but what do you think about -this-' and its possible they will go, 'Oh, I like that much better' but more likely it will be, 'No, I want my design idea.'

See my above post.

I saw a similar Facebook post, that went info even more detail. I got there from a Twitter link and I can't find it now, but they totally agreed. Iirc design work was their main job.

 

[Aribeth Zelin]

I saw a similar Facebook post, that went info even more detail. I got there from a Twitter link and I can't find it now, but they totally agreed. Iirc design work was their main job.

Speaking with other creatives, who have been on one end or the other of such a thing... seems we all agree. Now, its possible that the design company is taking the blame; but if they are, its because event designs aren't a big commodity right now, since most people are still not doing events, unlike conservatives.

 

[Innula Zenovka]

Speaking with other creatives, who have been on one end or the other of such a thing... seems we all agree. Now, its possible that the design company is taking the blame; but if they are, its because event designs aren't a big commodity right now, since most people are still not doing events, unlike conservatives.

I don't deny that it's possible, but it's also possible that the whole thing was a simple coincidence, so that doesn't really help.

My basic problem with the whole idea is that I have difficulty reconstructing the sequence of events.

Someone (who ?) must have decided that it would be a really good idea to have a stage designed like a nazi symbol (or this symbol in particular?).

What happened next? They must have shared the idea with others, who agreed with them, and more people were brought in on it as needed, and things developed from there, and they agreed on this symbol, and then what?

Who discussed it, and who approved the plans, and why? There must be plenty of documentation, in the form of texts and emails and so on. It's a big conference, with Trump himself speaking -- there's going to be plenty of committees involved.

And then how did they get Design Foundry to go along with the plan, and to agree to take responsibility when people spotted the rune?

I know they must be hurting for business, but are they that desperate, and who at CPAC is going to take the risk of asking Design Foundry in the first place if they're willing to go along with it, knowing that they might very well tell them to go to hell, and take the whole story to the media?

 

[Free]

I don't deny that it's possible, but it's also possible that the whole thing was a simple coincidence, so that doesn't really help.

These days, it helps to err on the side of fascism.

 

[Innula Zenovka]

These days, it helps to err on the side of fascism.

Helps how? I mean, no one is going to say,

"Well, I was in two minds about Trump and MAGA before, what with the last 4 years, and ICE rounding up people who are the wrong colour and don't have the right papers and interning them prior to deportation, and acting as a combination secret police and riot squad during the BLM/ racial justice protests, and then the attempts to overturn the election with ridiculous court cases, and the attempted coup, and the attempts to suppress voting on ethnic lines, and so on, but all that wasn't enough (because tax cuts and conservative judges).

"However, after seeing the shape of the stage they chose, I'm now convinced they're fascists and will no longer support them."

 

[Argent Stonecutter]

If there was any reason for the wings on the odal stage, like they were ramps or even just had steps at the end so people could walk on or off stage on them, I might grant they were actually put there by the design company without any push from CPAC. But no, they're not even staging areas, they're dead ends that only exist to turn the odal symbol into the Nazi version.

 

[Bartholomew Gallacher]

Well sometimes people get too motivated to get rid of all types of stuff, which also had a common use before, their common sense shuts off and they do become hysterical.

This really sometimes leads to very strange results, for example like this:

This is Fraktur, a special font type I guess everybody knows from some newspapers like New York Times. Some hysterics consider all people who nowadays still use these fonts as potential Nazis. No joke.
This is really ridiculous, because in 1941 Hitler himself actually banned Fraktur from being used any further, together with the Sütterlin script. The reasoning behind this was quite simple: what use it is to conquer the world if the occupied cannot read your stuff easily? And especially Sütterlin is hard to read if you never learned it.

But nonetheless some people still are so dumb to believe that if you do use that font it can only mean that you are a Nazi.

 

[Argent Stonecutter]

My take is that if you use Fraktur you're either a heavy metal band or an idiot (or do I repeat myself)?

 

[Free]

Helps how?

We're talking about a party, or at least a LARGE portion of a party, that at some level supports the efforts Trump set in motion on January 6.

You don't think the stage's shape is anything but an accident, fine. But their full intentions are clear and every decision they make, every action they are involved in, should be interpreted through eyes fully aware of that.

 

[Innula Zenovka]

We're talking about a party, or at least a LARGE portion of a party, that at some level supports the efforts Trump set in motion on January 6.

You don't think the stage's shape is anything but an accident, fine. But their full intentions are clear and every decision they make, every action they are involved in, should be interpreted through eyes fully aware of that.

I have no way of knowing whether the stage's resemblance to the collar tabs of the 7th SS Volunteer Mountain Division Prinz Eugen is intentional or not, or why they chose to commemorate that SS division in particular, if it is intentional, though if it is intentional I find the course of events that led to their selecting that design, and then persuading the design company to lie about it, and take responsibility by issuing a press statement to a left-wing Jewish news organisation, of all places, so without further evidence I want to leave that alone because it suggests serious dishonesty on the part of the owner of Design Foundry and her employees.

It seems to me unlikely, given what we know of her, that she would have anything to with such a plan, so I would need more evidence than simple supposition before I'm prepared to entertain the idea at all seriously, though I accept it's a theoretical possibility.


But I just don't see what depends on all this -- we know what Trump and his supporters are like, which is why it wouldn't surprise us if they did choose the shape deliberately, but I don't see how it being their deliberate decision to base the shape of the stage on a Nazi symbol makes them any worse than we already know they are, from their own words and actions.