Social Fraud in Second Life (European Citizen)

[MonochromeReflections]

Shit yourself. That'll show 'em.

 

[Spirits Rising]

Two things I'd like to say here, the first of which in in regard to Dakota's allowable sums for disability recipients here in the states: Unless something has changed drastically in the last decade or so, the maximum allowable amount to have in one's account (be it direct income or not) depends on the program. SSI - last I checked - was closer to $2,000 or so before they start raising their eyebrows.

The second thing?

To the OP: You have no (legal) way whatsoever to verify any of the information you have presented. You have what others have told you and what you have observed ... and that is that. You have no way of knowing what information is accurate, what information is not accurate and quite frankly we cannot verify any of the information you have presented either, least of all whom you have any contact with outside of Second Life.

As someone with my own issues/disabilities: You are not the sort of person - as you've presented yourself here - that I'd want doing much of anything on my behalf.

 

[Aribeth Zelin]

I could be judgemental, if the OP really wishes me to be.

 

[Shiloh Lyric]

I will certainly not post any screenshots of names or transactions or anything like that here to violate rules.

Just an FYI, and not that you should post screenshots, etc, BUT, it doesn't break any rules here to do so. And it doesn't break any of Linden Lab's TOS, either. This is a 3rd party site, controlled by Cristiano, and LL have no say over what gets posted here. Only Cris does.

 

[Salome]

I am certain that this person is using the "feel sorry for me" card because everyone knows that it works best, even with criminal intentions

Okay, so, I’m going to address some of my own thoughts skimming through this thread and just assume you believe you’re acting in good faith. Otherwise, there’s no reason to engage in any of this.

I’ve been in a similar position to where you find yourself multiple times. I’ve known people were stealing IP, committing fraud, engaging in unethical behavior, etc. I’ve had it confirmed by third parties, screen shots, and as much proof as you can have about anything in a virtual environment. I’ve been frustrated on behalf of both myself and other people getting ripped off, conned, exploited, etc. I’ve been disgusted with the lack of ability to do anything to stem the very real damage these behaviors do. All of this is just to say that if, indeed, you are confident you do have proof and the feelings you’ve expressed are genuine, I wholly understand your position.

The thing is, you’re going to make yourself crazy. You’re not going to be able to share your evidence (some of which was likely shared with you in confidence). And the people here and, well, anywhere, are not going to just take the word of random internet person (you). Their threshold for “proof” is going to be higher (as it should) and thus, their desire to help you engage your goals is also going to be tempered.

There’s no real recourse here. You can report to the tax authority that would govern the locality where the person lives if you know that. Give them what evidence you have if you want to take it to that stage, but in all likelihood they’re going to look at the amount of effort that goes into recovering funds vs what they’re likely to get and just decide it’s not worth it. You could also try and report it to PayPal as possible fraud, but you’d have to know the account and you’d never know if they acted on it or not, regardless.

In my experience, the people who work in SL (even if their work is illegitimate on some level, or an all-out-grift) don’t have a lot of other options, and like all desperate creatures, they will double down and do whatever it takes to keep going in the only format available to them. The person you’re describing is already using multiple alts. You could play whack-a-mole going after them forever. And in the end you are probably just expending all that effort to stop a sad, desperate person from getting a couple hundred extra dollars a month.

Like most people on this forum, I think it’s unethical and gross for someone to be making up stories to scam people out of sympathy bucks. It sucks to know someone is manipulating others. Assuming all you’ve shared is true, It’s a sucky situation all around.

But the solution you want doesn’t exist. The justice you’re looking for isn’t possible. And the potential for abuse if you’re wrong or being even slightly biased or untruthful is high. That’s why you’re getting the pushback you’re seeing instead of the cooperation it seems you expected. The reality is when people come into forums looking for “help” with unethical situations, knowing there’s no legitimate recourse, what they’re often seeking is mob justice. I’m not saying that’s what you came here for, but the people on this forum have seen that situation play out repeatedly and are reasonably wary.

Misdirecting your frustration toward a forum isn’t going to help anything, either. Basically, you either need to keep working with other victims to gather enough evidence to take to a real world authority, or you need to cut your losses. It’s a lousy choice, but it’s pretty much the only choice.

 

[Khamon]

STOP TO FEED TROLLS WITH TROLLING1 ... IN BOXES ... kthx

 

[Veritable Quandry]

I am not even willing to concede that the person the OP is ranting about exists. Troll. Hot button buzzwords strung together to get a reaction. It was a classic launch for a troll thread but they never get past the arglebargle phase into anything remotely interesting.

 

[Bea McMahon]

I see the quality of trolls we are getting over here is about the same that we got on SLU.

 

[Bartholomew Gallacher]

You're just one of those "ein Platz für alles und alles an seinem Platz" volk, aren't you? Do us a favor and walk out now, find a cafe, have some white sausage with mustard and pretzel (or whatever is customary if you're a northerner), sit back, enjoy whatever music is playing, and chill. You need a break.

There's a far much better word for this: Blockwart-Mentalität! And this is by no means an accolade, quite the opposite.

Let me break it down for you: Mentalität is the mindset, or mentality. So far, so easy.

Now to the Blockwart - Block or block is just this, a block of houses/apartment buildings. And a "Wart" is a person, who is responsible for this block. So a Blockwart is responsible for a small area of houses.

More specifically - he was. Because what was the Blockwart? The Blockwart was the lowest rank in the hierarchy of the NSDAP - Nationalsozialistische Arbeiterpartei Deutschlands -, so the original Nazis. He was responsible for having an ear on everybody in his area and keep everybody in line with the ideology of this party, suppress smaller tendencies against the party, and notify it of heavier opposition. So in short most of the time they've reported most of the time every trifle to their authorities, just to be sure they didn't make any mistakes.

 

[Sid]

Please don't put words in my mouth Bartholomew. If you have something to say, speak for yourself.
I don't like it at all that you make up text and put it down as a quote of mine.
In boxing terms, that is a punch below the belt.

Edit to add: Resolved.

 

[Soen Eber]

He was quoting my post. I don't know how your name got tagged to it. *shrugs*

 

[Bartholomew Gallacher]

Indeed i was quoting Sohn Eber; I don't know why it showed Sid. Corrected.

 

[Sid]

Thanks.

 

[eku zhong]

i want to know how this wotsit got screenshots of her transaction history.. just saying.

 

[Maggy Hazelnut]

It sounds to me that the OP spent a lot of money on his escort & then found out she was catfishing him. Now he's pissed & wants to get some revenge. Blocking her & walking away isn't enough - he wants to make sure she suffers for getting his money & making a fool out of him & others. He came on here to try to get allies & hopefully more suggestions on how to get even. Yeah that's pretty much how it looks to me.

 

[Da5id Weatherwax]

Ok, a personal perspective here.

I am currently unemployed. I'm an IT guy, and I think I'm a pretty good one - all the folks I've worked for have said so, anyway. Problem is I'm in my 50s with 30 years of experience and that makes me either "too expensive" (bullshit, I wouldn't have applied if I wasn't prepared to take what you're offering) "overqualified" (also bullshit, since once again I wouldn't have applied for a job I wasn't prepared to do) or just plain knowledgeable enough to scare the less-experienced hiring manager (honest, but equally frustrating from my PoV). I get benefits, but every penny of that is spoken for.

I play music in SL. I make 3d models for folks. I play bars if I can get a booking, I busk on the bloody street-corner if I need the cash in a hurry for something the benefits don't cover. I take on occasional mixing and mastering projects or even the occasional commission to compose something.. These things that used to be sidelines are the only way I have any spare scratch in my pocket EVER. The SL stuff just about covers my SL expenses. No cashout. The RL bookings, I declare them as "hours worked", take the benefits cut that week and still come out ahead, but only just. The only thing that might conceivably be considered "fraud" is not declaring the cash from street performances. But NOBODY does that. I've started keeping all my receipts for new strings to claim 'em as "business expenses" too, since I AM declaring the few actual paid RL performances!

The COMPLETELY ODIOUS OP knows nothing about what the person they are talking about (if that person exists and is not just an invention for the purpose of trolling) does to "legalize" their virtual income. For all he knows they could be declaring it as hours worked from home and not getting benefits for those hours.

...and the horse you rode in on, asshat.

 

[TankWorld]

Coming back, reading all these insults, I could have spent my time differently, thinking that people have a more objective take on justice. If I read the last comments here, all you do is namecalling. I am not a troll, I was honest with my first post and that's why I registered here, to get answers. That's why the only Person who really did help me with how to proceed was

Okay, so, I’m going to address some of my own thoughts skimming through this thread and just assume you believe you’re acting in good faith. Otherwise, there’s no reason to engage in any of this.

I’ve been in a similar position to where you find yourself multiple times. I’ve known people were stealing IP, committing fraud, engaging in unethical behavior, etc. I’ve had it confirmed by third parties, screen shots, and as much proof as you can have about anything in a virtual environment. I’ve been frustrated on behalf of both myself and other people getting ripped off, conned, exploited, etc. I’ve been disgusted with the lack of ability to do anything to stem the very real damage these behaviors do. All of this is just to say that if, indeed, you are confident you do have proof and the feelings you’ve expressed are genuine, I wholly understand your position.

The thing is, you’re going to make yourself crazy. You’re not going to be able to share your evidence (some of which was likely shared with you in confidence). And the people here and, well, anywhere, are not going to just take the word of random internet person (you). Their threshold for “proof” is going to be higher (as it should) and thus, their desire to help you engage your goals is also going to be tempered.

There’s no real recourse here. You can report to the tax authority that would govern the locality where the person lives if you know that. Give them what evidence you have if you want to take it to that stage, but in all likelihood they’re going to look at the amount of effort that goes into recovering funds vs what they’re likely to get and just decide it’s not worth it. You could also try and report it to PayPal as possible fraud, but you’d have to know the account and you’d never know if they acted on it or not, regardless.

In my experience, the people who work in SL (even if their work is illegitimate on some level, or an all-out-grift) don’t have a lot of other options, and like all desperate creatures, they will double down and do whatever it takes to keep going in the only format available to them. The person you’re describing is already using multiple alts. You could play whack-a-mole going after them forever. And in the end you are probably just expending all that effort to stop a sad, desperate person from getting a couple hundred extra dollars a month.

Like most people on this forum, I think it’s unethical and gross for someone to be making up stories to scam people out of sympathy bucks. It sucks to know someone is manipulating others. Assuming all you’ve shared is true, It’s a sucky situation all around.

But the solution you want doesn’t exist. The justice you’re looking for isn’t possible. And the potential for abuse if you’re wrong or being even slightly biased or untruthful is high. That’s why you’re getting the pushback you’re seeing instead of the cooperation it seems you expected. The reality is when people come into forums looking for “help” with unethical situations, knowing there’s no legitimate recourse, what they’re often seeking is mob justice. I’m not saying that’s what you came here for, but the people on this forum have seen that situation play out repeatedly and are reasonably wary.

Misdirecting your frustration toward a forum isn’t going to help anything, either. Basically, you either need to keep working with other victims to gather enough evidence to take to a real world authority, or you need to cut your losses. It’s a lousy choice, but it’s pretty much the only choice.

I really want to take the time to thank you a lot for that post as I feel it is very well thought through. I wasn't looking for mob justice or anything, just potential legal advice of people that have some kind of sense for justice. I do understand that people go to SL for different reasons, even understand people who earn money on top of what they have but deliberately fooling people into believing a heartwarming or heartbreaking story to make a buck out of them is unethical and, in Germany, against the law, at least the part where you pay out while on social care where you aren't allowed to earn more than a certain amount monthly.

Again, thank you very much for the time and effort to write this post and I will do what you suggested. There is evidence already but I feel that it has to be rock solid and it's better to have more proof, rather than having less. I also think that none of the other commenters here actually got into a situation like you did or I did, so it all ends up in "Newbie Bashing" here.

 

[Beebo Brink]

Sal, you've got a good heart. Unlike the rest of us vipers.

 

[Sid]

so it all ends up in "Newbie Bashing" here.

Nice post, but that last sentence just tells what you really are: A troll, provocing new reactions.
Aufwienerschnitzel Herr Tankworld General, Sir. Have a good one.

 

[Noodles]

Can we discuss the side issue of how shitty it is social welfare programs have limits of what you can earn/save?

It basically ensures poor people can never attempt to get ahead at all. As soon as they start to get ahead, then their basic support system will fall away just making the worse off or at best the same as they were. I mean I don't have a problem with it eventually falling off, but it's so rediculously low it feels impossible.

FWIW, I say this coming from once making $25k/year before I got a better job paying considerably better and using social welfare programs. You never quite manager to ever get ahead without a sudden boost (like way better employment).