Nobody likes Windows 12

[Monica Dream]

See -I haven't run a computer without hardware virtualization since 2007, which is when I first was able to get it in consumer hardware affordably. Qemu without kvm is a living nightmare, ditto for VirtualBox (as I'm finding out since windows 11 runs hyper-v by default -which has the effect of blocking Virtualbox and VMware from accessing it).

WSL2 is indeed a glorified virtual machine (but with better integration with windows; neither VB or VMWare integrate with windows terminal); that's why I specified that WSL1 is a subsystem.

 

[Monica Dream]

off-topic for Windows whatever; but virtualization in a sad state these days:
Qemu: Managed by Redhat A.K.A IBM
Virtualbox: a product of Oracle
Hyper-V: Microsoft.

All of whom could give less than a shit about supporting desktop virtualization (hell -you can't even buy a Virtualbox license unless you want to buy a site license for 1,000 people or some-shit!)
I'm not sure of the details but apparently IBM is deprecating Qemu's Virt-manager/libvirt/whatever in favor of some solution I can't be fucked to remember, Virtualbox 7 has been flakey as shit (in my experience) ...pretty much leaving me with Hyper-V which, like windows, comes with my computer (more or less).

I was a huge fan of Virtualbox for ages, from like 2013 to 2017 or so I ran my opensim grid off of a VirtualBox vm running on my desktop machine. But since upgrading my computer last year it seems like I've had to jump through stupid hoops to simply work around the 'green tortoise' problem (hyper-v hogging hardware virtualisation) only to have Virtualbox 7 flake out in one area or another.

Kind of a drag, too. I'm expecting that because of the economy, VPS pricing will reach a point that puts it out of reach for simple fucking around with opensim purposes -so it's hyper-v or die.

 

[Argent Stonecutter]

See -I haven't run a computer without hardware virtualization since 2007,

Yes I know what that is. I have run virtualization pools for major corporations. I have an ESXi box in my office. I've been doing virtualization since long before it was cool.

Also, I've been using SFU since before it was called SFU. I've attended conferences with and had dinner with Stephen Walli of Softway Systems (the creators of Interix), who baldly lied to me on one occasion about why Softway Systems couldn't be bought by Microsoft after it had already happened (but hadn't yet been announced).

In the beginning was the POSIX subsystem. Softway extended it for wider UNIX support and making it talk to Win32 with fewer of Microsoft's restrictions. WSL1 extended it and moved more of the system calls into the POSIX subsystem. It's not a different thing from WSL1, it's just an older version.

MKS and Cygwin and other UNIX environments on top of the Win32 subsystem are a whole different thing.

 

[Noodles]

.

Kind of a drag, too. I'm expecting that because of the economy, VPS pricing will reach a point that puts it out of reach for simple fucking around with opensim urposes -so it's hyper-v or die.

I am surprised there is not yet a reliable version of OpenSIM for docker yet. I tried to set one up using what Infound but it didn't work. But also I probably fucked it up because Docker is dumb.

 

[Monica Dream]

Yes I know what that is. I have run virtualization pools for major corporations. I have an ESXi box in my office. I've been doing virtualization since long before it was cool.

I hopped on with the announcement of Xen, sometime after Bochs went open source. I suspect I may have used bochs before it went open source.

I'm throwing that out there because I'm not sure which time you're talking about virtualization being cool. Do you mean the 2010s? The early 2000's? Back in the 60's when IBM was developing it on System whatever the fuck it was?

I'm talking early 1999, 2000s, but while I wrote articles about it and even played a bit with qemu ...I didn't actually get the full monty experience until 2007. Regardless yeah -I watched it coming, granted as a desktop user and not as some sort of luncheon-attending professional.

In the beginning was the POSIX subsystem. Softway extended it for wider UNIX support and making it talk to Win32 with fewer of Microsoft's restrictions. WSL1 extended it and moved more of the system calls into the POSIX subsystem. It's not a different thing from WSL1, it's just an older version.

In the beginning was the decision to split the NT kernel into personalities; win32, os/2 and then later posix. That's the origin of the entire 'subsystem' concept. It probably has something to do with cutler and wank wank vms wank wank wank. But that's the beginning; when they were planning the next version of os/2 (which became NT) and they brought Culter in.

WSL1 is a subsystem -, a personality similar to the mostly-neutered os/2 subsystem (yes, I know that was taken out in windows 2000 or so -that's beside the point).

WSL2 ...is a virtual machine, distinct from a subsystem (though both work on a kernel level, with the difference being that WSL2 uses the kernel's hardware virtualization features instead of being a ui personality/subsystem). The primary difference from something like qemu/kvm is that the UI to WSL2 is a metric fuck-ton better if for no other reason than the integration into windows terminal.

 

[Monica Dream]

I am surprised there is not yet a reliable version of OpenSIM for docker yet. I tried to set one up using what Infound but it didn't work. But also I probably fucked it up because Docker is dumb.

You can do opensim in docker, I used to be on a friends' grid who had that set up. I don't know much about it because it's not my thing.

And it's not my thing because Docker is FUCKING dumb. yeah.

 

[Noodles]

And it's not my thing because Docker is FUCKING dumb. yeah.

Hear me out.

What if we have all the disadvantages of virtualization, AND the disadvantages of bare hardware. AND it uses a cryptic impossible to descipher XML file to to the initial set up.

Lets top it off by every system assumes its the only thing running so everything tries to use the same ports.

 

[Monica Dream]

Hear me out.

What if we have all the disadvantages of virtualization, AND the disadvantages of bare hardware. AND it uses a cryptic impossible to descipher XML file to to the initial set up.

Lets top it off by every system assumes its the only thing running so everything tries to use the same ports.

Well, hell...when you put it like that....

 

[Argent Stonecutter]

OK, I don't know why you keep 'splaining at me the same things that I just said, but I'm out.

 

[Cindy Claveau]

Sorry for the minor necro. I felt obligated to come back and report on how I finally resolved the Win11 issue on my new PC, as well as to apologize for my stupidity

I've been searching online boards wherever I could find them, reading up on problems other people have had with Windows 11. The more I read, the more I came to suspect my antivirus, Bitdefender, as the problem. (insert facepalm here). I had it way down the list of suspects, assuming the worst of Microsoft and Windows without much evidence other than the baby-coddling "Safe" mode thing.

First, I did the whole PC virus scan and set the applications to administrator, then told BitDefender to lay the hell off these programs.

Imagine my glee when 12-year old games are finally working as intended! Thank you Kokoro and Argent!

 

[Cindy Claveau]

One more gripe. Microsoft's brain fart "CoPilot". I was doing some work for a client yesterday in my graphics suite and suddenly, Windows pops up, stops what I'm doing and wants me to use the stupid CopIlot feature of windows 11. Yeh, I know I'm dumb but I do NOT want my hand held!

Ok, so I look up how to shut that crap off and none of the Google results work for me. None of the instructions match what I see on my menus. Why is it that whenever I install a new Microsoft program I spend more time shutting off features I don't want than I do actually using the software?

 

[Noodles]

Ask Copilot how to shut off Copilot.

 

[Cindy Claveau]

Ask Copilot how to shut off Copilot.

Brilliant. I didn't think of that

 

[Imnotgoing Sideways]

Considering myself lucky that I've never seen it. Though, I'm using Win11Pro. Reading up a bit, it looks like Home Edition has it baked in pretty deep but can be disabled in registry.

 

[Noodles]

I have not seen any Copilot stuff either, I am also on Pro. I wonder if it's actually related or coincidence.

 

[Khamon]

Copilot has not haunted my machine either. It is running Windows 11 Pro v23H2 build 22631.3085. Perhaps we are the lucky ones.

 

[Caete]

Copilot has not haunted my machine either. It is running Windows 11 Pro v23H2 build 22631.3085. Perhaps we are the lucky ones.

Could be! The only Win 11 machine in my household is running Pro. Most of the systems are Win 7 or 10 with several laptops running Win XP, NT or Vista lol.

 

[Essence Lumin]

No Microsoft unless you force it on me which may be inevitable.

 

[Cindy Claveau]

Back for more punishment. My Chinese discount computer is doing what popular suspicion claims - after screwing up my restart, it worked great for exactly 2 weeks. This morning, it won't boot up. It appears to be getting power but the start switch or the power supply (SOMETHING!) is just not working.

So I'm at my old broken computer now, unable to save bookmarks in Firefox and cursing all the other miscellaneous crap that drove me to buy a new machine in the first place.

Computer shop says 3-4 days for diagnostics, which is longer than I expected. But I know for a fact that once they find the problem it will be fixed. They haven't failed me yet. All I asked is that, IF it's the power supply, please upgrade me from 600w to 750w. I've never bought a machine with less than 750 until this one, and it was trying to tell me the USB drives were overloading my old machine. I can do without my K: drive for a few days with all the misc. bookmarks in it, but I seriously doubt the PS is the issue. More likely it's the stupid on/off switch or something.

Off to update SL and a ton of other apps on this old creaking piece of crap. Computers hate me.

The feeling is now mutual. I do, however, love my local computer shop.

 

[Cindy Claveau]

NEWS FLASH! (if anyone cares) - the store called. They found BENT PINS on the CPU! The motherboard is trash. $90 to replace the Mobo, they said, then offered to help me with any warranties. I never touched the CPU or the Mobo, so I believe it was shipped this way.

My feeling, as anti-logical as it may be, is "Screw Newegg". They adveristed this great deal, a good cheap machine with scads of memory and no mentions of re-built or refurbished or anything. I will not deal with dishonest companies.

I told my repair guy to go ahead with the new MoBo. I'll eat the cost for making such a huge mistake. Next time I'm going back to Alienware. I've had two of their machines and not only did I get exactly what I ordered, but their customer service was top rate.