#IMP45CH #LOCKHIMUP

[Shiloh Lyric]

And this is for me the real problem: the center to left have no answer to what a renewed consensus for welfare, work rates etc.pp. should look like; instead they are working for diversity and minority stuff, while the workers and poor feel left alone in the rain. Since years, decades. they do feel getting poorer and poorer, are unhappy, unsatisfied, don't have access to basic things while others have.

First of all, you should read the book Dark Money. And then more about the Kochs. Then tell me more about Clinton.

Second...the part I bolded...what EXACTLY do you mean there? "Diversity and minority" stuff while the "workers and poor" feel left alone. Who, exactly do you think the "workers and poor" are? Do you think that group, or those 2 groups which highly intersect, aren't full of some of that "diversity and minority" stuff?

Yeah, you don't know as much about America as you think you do. Not when you use the very dog whistle talk REPUBLICANS have been using for a few decades here, (and which the wealthy started soon after the Civil War ended), to ensure racial animosity and keep their power, while trying to assign the blame.

Separating "minority" and "diversity" from "workers" is a big tell, there, Bart. The implications in your words play right into the Right's hands. And THAT'S the sort of stuff which got us Trump.

 

[Shiloh Lyric]

So, let me cut to the chase...if by 'workers and poor' you mean working and poor WHITES, most of the people THAT applies to, live in areas decimated by REPUBLICAN policies. Our problems aren't only created by our Federal Government. We have 50 separate states, and who is in charge of THEM have just as much influence on what happens to residents of that state as what the Federal Government is doing.

 

[Innula Zenovka]

And this is for me the real problem: the center to left have no answer to what a renewed consensus for welfare, work rates etc.pp. should look like; instead they are working for diversity and minority stuff, while the workers and poor feel left alone in the rain. Since years, decades. they do feel getting poorer and poorer, are unhappy, unsatisfied, don't have access to basic things while others have.

I'm not sure about the distinction between, on the one hand, "working for diversity and minority stuff" and, on the other "the workers and poor." I mean, it's not as if "women, members of ethnic minorities and LGBT+" and "the workers and poor" are mutually exclusive categories, is it?

I do see what you mean, in that I agree that a lot of politicians and businesses seem more interested in progressive social policies than in structural economic inequality. Partly, I think, that's because the right -- at least in the USA -- try to make politics about "culture wars," for reasons of self-interest -- while people are concentrating on same sex marriage or which public lavatories trans people should use, they're not talking about unemployment, low wages, and increasing economic inequality -- and people on the left have to answer those arguments.

However, I really don't think that the left should dismiss social issues -- rather, I'd argue that social issues can't be separated, and no should try, from economic ones. Rather, I think the two go together.

 

[Dakota Tebaldi]

Did somebody hack Ted Cruz's website?

(ETA: Yes, I know )

 

[Kamilah Hauptmann]

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[Salome]

...the center to left have no answer to what a renewed consensus for welfare, work rates etc.pp. should look like; instead they are working for diversity and minority stuff, while the workers and poor feel left alone in the rain...

Interesting. So GOP-funded, Russia-fueled alt-left propaganda has penetrated outside the US. Lovely.

For the record, the Clinton administration made several mistakes, but the vast majority of them were continuations of Reagan/Bush I era economic sabotage and/or clumsy attempts to fix said sabotage without alienating what was (then) a very center-right leaning populace. People seem to forget that the main reason Clinton won wasn't because the bulk of the US had shifted away from Reagan-era brainwashing but because the GOP was challenged by a third party candidate (Ross Perot). Clinton didn't really have a mandate and unlike the GOP, most Democrat politicians don't behave like they have a mandate when they don't. And the election after the Reform Party loyalists went back to supporting the GOP, we got Bush II.

The GOP has their pattern down. They run on racism, misogyny, and prejudice against any marginalized community they can. Once they get in, they sabotage the economy and funnel as much money as they can up to the billionaire class. They gerrymander and undermine the rights of the people who vote against them.

When Democrats get elected to higher office, the GOP still has their gerrymandered Congressional seats so they can prevent most meaningful change (this is why so much of Obama's progress was done via executive order -- the GOP literally sabotaged his entire presidency). Meanwhile the Dems have to keep the country solvent and repair the economic sabotage the GOP performs while in office. Unfortunately, this situations makes it difficult to do much. Getting Obamacare passed was a fucking miracle and Dems paid heavily for it because the GOP is good at convincing middle class and lower middle class white people of ridiculous bullshit.

Many of us have issues with some of Clinton (and Obama's) choices. But it's an absolute fairy tale that the bulk of those bad choices started with their administrations. They mostly had to deal with GOP obstruction and sabotage the whole way. In no small part because far-left voters never seem to learn the fucking lessons the GOP learned from Ross Perot and they become useless fuckwits when it turns out Daddy can't get them a pony just because he got elected.

 

[Kamilah Hauptmann]

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Extra:

 

[Brian]

And this is for me the real problem: the center to left have no answer to what a renewed consensus for welfare, work rates etc.pp. should look like; instead they are working for diversity and minority stuff, while the workers and poor feel left alone in the rain.

One of the main points we hammer into Americans now is that this b.s. claim of a distinctive difference will be called out. It's racist propaganda, not a problem of the left.

It began during Nixon era and was sold to the public by Reagan's time. Government assistance used to be recognized without regard to race, and white Americans were, and always have been the major beneficiaries. Conservative politicians began demonizing "the lazy freeloaders" collecting benefits, using pictures of people of color. Media and the public ate it up. The numbers never changed, but the face of poverty, of those receiving aid, changed almost exclusively to non-whites.

There really is no excuse anymore for pretending this was and still is anything but racist propaganda, as if suddenly the poor are being ignored by the left. There never was any difference between how poor people of different races were affected by economic legislation. No Democratic politician, or anyone on the left that I'm aware of, has ever suggested rules or laws that only benefit the poorer classes of certain races, and ONLY the left has been pushing for laws benefiting them.

Removing this imaginary distinction between helping the poor and human rights of the disenfranchised only happens when you recognize that this is "us vs them" logic designed to feed deep ingrained racism.

 

[Salome]

Brian, I understand your points, but I think that is a little too charitable toward the Dems. Policies in the parst may not have been written to exclude (although sometimes they were) but there has not always been a dedication and focus on distributing support equally. In many cases minority communities suffered disproportionately and not enough was done to stop or reverse those wrongs. It is true, however, that left has followed a curve of evolving more in the direction of equality, inclusion, and fairness while the right has moved more aggressively toward disenfranchisement and white nationalism and many key points in those parallel evolutions can be traced directly back to Nixon era politics.

Sorry if that feels nit picky, but given that a not insignificant element of the left has bought into their own modern racist dog-whistles, I think we’re better off admitting we still have work to do.

 

[Kara Spengler]

Yep, I'm going to continue to call them nazi rallies. He's using these rallies to tell these people exactly who they should hate.

Same here, I consider them beneath contempt so ignore calls of 'we need to work together with them'.

Yes, as far as they have votes too I need to be aware of their existence but that is about it. I am starting to lose count how many communities they (no, not just donnie, I blame everyone still with him) have negatively affected: fear, intimidation, biased laws, and even murders. I have no wish to work with nazis or whatever the party line is.

 

[Kara Spengler]

So, Wohl and Burkman had their news conference with the "big reveal". It went about as well as you might expect; but if you need a hint, Burkman's fly was down, literally, the entire time. Not even kidding.

Not the best look if the purported reason was defending someone that was sexually assaulted.

 

[Brian]

Brian, I understand your points, but I think that is a little too charitable toward the Dems. Policies in the parst may not have been written to exclude (although sometimes they were) but there has not always been a dedication and focus on distributing support equally. In many cases minority communities suffered disproportionately and not enough was done to stop or reverse those wrongs. It is true, however, that left has followed a curve of evolving more in the direction of equality, inclusion, and fairness while the right has moved more aggressively toward disenfranchisement and white nationalism and many key points in those parallel evolutions can be traced directly back to Nixon era politics.

Sorry if that feels nit picky, but given that a not insignificant element of the left has bought into their own modern racist dog-whistles, I think we’re better off admitting we still have work to do.

Yeah, it was too generous to Dems, but still the opposite of ignoring poor whites, who have been the only ones that could be put forward for legitimate proof of need.

 

[Jopsy Pendragon]

So, Wohl and Burkman had their news conference with the "big reveal". It went about as well as you might expect; but if you need a hint, Burkman's fly was down, literally, the entire time. Not even kidding.

A clever stunt. Let two "useful idiots" flounder in a bit of political theater that successfully undermines an indirect target while failing comically against the target they seem to be going after. This rancid mess will be used again and again to cast doubt on all claims of sexual assault.

 

[Tranquility]

A clever stunt. Let two "useful idiots" flounder in a bit of political theater that successfully undermines an indirect target while failing comically against the target they seem to be going after. This rancid mess will be used again and again to cast doubt on all claims of sexual assault.

I don't think that is necessarily true. I mean, you are probably right that it will be used, but the right wing nuts have been fabricating these kinds of lies and doubts long before Wohl and Burkman. I don't think this trainwreck will strengthen those lies. Look at the alt right conspiracy theories about the mail bombs.

 

[Innula Zenovka]

A clever stunt. Let two "useful idiots" flounder in a bit of political theater that successfully undermines an indirect target while failing comically against the target they seem to be going after. This rancid mess will be used again and again to cast doubt on all claims of sexual assault.

I was thinking that, if anything, this escapade might suggest to people that it's rather more difficult that they might think to concoct a false, though credible, allegation of rape or sexual assault and then to sustain it in the face of sceptical questioning.

 

[Salome]

We are truly in the dumbest timeline.

 

[Innula Zenovka]

J.K. Rowling has a response, but I'm still gobsmacked at Trump's tweet.

 

[Ishina]

Is that close enough for a copyright claim?

 

[Dakota Tebaldi]

Is that close enough for a copyright claim?

Not in the US

 

[Dakota Tebaldi]