Bartholomew Gallacher
Well-known member
- Joined
- Sep 26, 2018
- Messages
- 6,796
- SL Rez
- 2002
The sad truth is that in the Middle East peace is unlikely to happen soon. Both sides, Palestine and Israel, think they are the victim and only protecting themself. Both sides consider their actions as justified due to the suffering they had to deal with as well as based on religious believes.
Both sides do hate each other. And both sides have been committing big atrocities to each other. One of the favorite past times of Hamas in Gaza strip was to randomly fire Katyushas directed at Israel civilian space, just because. This caused lots of suffering. Israeli are very well aware about it, and it's a thing which greatly shaped and shapes the society. It's also a thing which almost never gets mentioned in our media. In fact these attacks are happening so often, that in areas in reach of them most houses are using protective covers at their windows to minimise damage and such.
So it's not a question if the IDF is committing atrocities, they are doing it for sure. Just like Hamas does. The real question is: where and how much?
Israel is also a highly militarized society, similar to Finland - with the difference that Israel is constantly at war, Finland not. Finland is only preparing for it since decades. Every man and woman in Israel, ultra-orthodox Jews excluded, has to serve for 3 years in the army. Since decades.
And the public opinion in Israel about the West is actually quite bad, they do consider them as unreliable allies. Why? Because the narrative in Israel is like this: Hamas or another Palestine organization is doing terror stuff, so Israel responds. First most non-muslimic countries do side with Israel due to that, but then the Palestines are spinning their well fabricated stash of victims, childrens and such. And then this support quickly turns around to "how dare you do that to the Palestines?" Which is why Israel gives a shit about what Western countries do think about them, because in their eyes they've got struggle to survive day by day and if you have not lived in Israel it's easy to get a wrong opinion. Something like that.
Also Israel doesn't think that from the UNO comes much good, because there's only one Jewish state in the world, but 57 muslimic ones.
Also Israeli narrative is that the Palestines already had 2 chances to create their own country, they didn't took them. And that every time they tried to make peace with the Palestines, they only bit into the outreached hand.
The thing is the terrorist attacks of October 2023 were a tipping point. They broke something in the society of Israel, many people went into a blood thirsty "enough is enough" rage. Which is why this war started, and is still on-going until today. The Israelis concluded that you cannot seperate Hamas from the civil population in Gaza, because the support for Hamas is so high. That the only solution to get rid of Hamas is to change the public opinion against them with a war. And also to destruct paramilitary installations of Hamas. Well, such a strategy often backfires and only gives birth to more terror as we do all know.
I am pretty sure with Nakba and other history the Palestines are quite firm on their own reasons for the whole shebang.
The difference between Israel and the Palestines is that Israel has a very capable and good equipped conventional army, including nuclear warheads. The Palestines have not access to such things, so they are using asymmetrical ways instead, mostly terror.
How to solve this? Both sides will continue with their pesty games. It will only stop if one runs out of the will to do it, which is not going to happen. Or if somebody puts so much external pressure at both of them that they are willing to go to the negotiation table. Trump tried that, well the success of that is dubious at best so far. Still he managed to do much more in that regard than other presidents before him.
Another possibility is the proverbial nuking into a parking lot, which is of course out of question. Or occupying the whole region and pacifiy it that way, which will be also quite messy and is no long term solution either.
And Israel is also quite double standard when being criticised. Martin Schulz (SPD) was the president of the European Parliament in 2014. He back then held a speech in the Knesset, where he openly criticised that the average citizen of Israel has access to about 70 liters of drinking water per day, while the typical Palestinian only has access to 15. He got booed by some members of it, and later the Israeli government announced that he was spreading lies.
Both sides do hate each other. And both sides have been committing big atrocities to each other. One of the favorite past times of Hamas in Gaza strip was to randomly fire Katyushas directed at Israel civilian space, just because. This caused lots of suffering. Israeli are very well aware about it, and it's a thing which greatly shaped and shapes the society. It's also a thing which almost never gets mentioned in our media. In fact these attacks are happening so often, that in areas in reach of them most houses are using protective covers at their windows to minimise damage and such.
So it's not a question if the IDF is committing atrocities, they are doing it for sure. Just like Hamas does. The real question is: where and how much?
Israel is also a highly militarized society, similar to Finland - with the difference that Israel is constantly at war, Finland not. Finland is only preparing for it since decades. Every man and woman in Israel, ultra-orthodox Jews excluded, has to serve for 3 years in the army. Since decades.
And the public opinion in Israel about the West is actually quite bad, they do consider them as unreliable allies. Why? Because the narrative in Israel is like this: Hamas or another Palestine organization is doing terror stuff, so Israel responds. First most non-muslimic countries do side with Israel due to that, but then the Palestines are spinning their well fabricated stash of victims, childrens and such. And then this support quickly turns around to "how dare you do that to the Palestines?" Which is why Israel gives a shit about what Western countries do think about them, because in their eyes they've got struggle to survive day by day and if you have not lived in Israel it's easy to get a wrong opinion. Something like that.
Also Israel doesn't think that from the UNO comes much good, because there's only one Jewish state in the world, but 57 muslimic ones.
Also Israeli narrative is that the Palestines already had 2 chances to create their own country, they didn't took them. And that every time they tried to make peace with the Palestines, they only bit into the outreached hand.
The thing is the terrorist attacks of October 2023 were a tipping point. They broke something in the society of Israel, many people went into a blood thirsty "enough is enough" rage. Which is why this war started, and is still on-going until today. The Israelis concluded that you cannot seperate Hamas from the civil population in Gaza, because the support for Hamas is so high. That the only solution to get rid of Hamas is to change the public opinion against them with a war. And also to destruct paramilitary installations of Hamas. Well, such a strategy often backfires and only gives birth to more terror as we do all know.
I am pretty sure with Nakba and other history the Palestines are quite firm on their own reasons for the whole shebang.
The difference between Israel and the Palestines is that Israel has a very capable and good equipped conventional army, including nuclear warheads. The Palestines have not access to such things, so they are using asymmetrical ways instead, mostly terror.
How to solve this? Both sides will continue with their pesty games. It will only stop if one runs out of the will to do it, which is not going to happen. Or if somebody puts so much external pressure at both of them that they are willing to go to the negotiation table. Trump tried that, well the success of that is dubious at best so far. Still he managed to do much more in that regard than other presidents before him.
Another possibility is the proverbial nuking into a parking lot, which is of course out of question. Or occupying the whole region and pacifiy it that way, which will be also quite messy and is no long term solution either.
And Israel is also quite double standard when being criticised. Martin Schulz (SPD) was the president of the European Parliament in 2014. He back then held a speech in the Knesset, where he openly criticised that the average citizen of Israel has access to about 70 liters of drinking water per day, while the typical Palestinian only has access to 15. He got booed by some members of it, and later the Israeli government announced that he was spreading lies.
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