Democratic Party Presidential Candidates for 2020

[Cristalle]

Brian perfectly illustrates the difference between "centrists" and "moderates".

Whatever he is, he is a party hack. His positions may be liberal, centrist, whatever, but he's so beholden to the party that he's lost something.

 

[Cristalle]

I displayed neither.
I showed a preference for a moderate and told why.

I'm not in the center and often, like here, not willing to be moderate.

You don't have to be moderate. I don't care if your positions are moderate, centrist or whatever. You just don't need to be an aggressive asshole to people who disagree with you. Yes, we're all passionate about certain things here, but get a friggin' grip. No one here is picking fights with you as a person. Don't take shit so personally.

 

[Cristalle]

Policy doesn't mean shit if you can't get it through Congress. You heard the story of the unicorn you get to live happily ever after with when Sanders ran for President the first time and suddenly you were awake and know how US Politics works. If he had won presidency with the Congress we had in from 2016 he would have had it worse than Obama did in his last 2 years. Not a single policy he campaigned for would have even come close. With the Congress we have now, he would have a favorable House only. I wouldn't put it past McConnell to have kept us with 2 open SCOTUS seats.

Sadly, if we had more people like AOC in the House, we wouldn't have even had the government open. When a bill encompasses a multiple shitload of issues altogether, it's not possible to pass without some things you don't like. She voted with Republicans to not pass the bill to stop the shutdown.

To improve lives, you have to have more than all policy that's in your dreams. You have to deal with those who want none of it. You get closer to what you want by taking more seats. JD endorsed candidates did none of that. They took 4 seats that were already in solid blue districts. Hardcore Democratic base took 40 red seats with GOTV efforts.

Don't worry, you'll still have the weasels in media playing up Bernie while criticizing others for not closing prisons while being a prosecutor, and being a bossy boss. Meantime, you get to endure Democrats who refuse to play nice with Bernie or his supporters another go-round.
The hardcore HRC supporters are happy to make it clear that they don't mind a crusty, old, white guy; just not THAT crusty, old, white guy.

I couldn't care less if Han ignores; the history before the forum change was already bad.
Enjoy the campaigns. Since nothing's changed, don't expect a fun ride.

As for all this: DUH. No shit, Sherlock.

What is important is to have advocates who will move the Overton Window in the right direction. Mealy mouthed centrism will not do that. Dynamic people like Bernie and AOC are shifting the conversation and reframing things away from the usual right wing point of view that pundits feed us on TV. We are having more honest conversations about what's possible because they're not afraid to be bold.

 

[Han Held]

You just don't need to be an aggressive asshole to people who disagree with you.

He doesn't need to be, he chooses to be. He's old enough that it's a choice

...which is the reason I simply muted him and moved on, at the end of the day it's the only approach with people who opt to get disproportionately aggro.

 

[Jolene Benoir]

Wow, it got hot in here last night. Of course this was going to happen the second Bernie stepped in and is one of the reasons I opposed it. This anger displayed between those that support him and those that do not that we saw here is going to happen nationally...again and it is only going to be extremely toxic to our chances to remove that criminal in the White House. I'm guessing that Trump's supporters love the new development.

Two things:

I wouldn't consider Cristalle or Han Bernie Bros. They are avid supporters, mayhaps. Honestly, I haven't seen Han post much yet at all about the upcoming race so I am not sure why they were included. Cristalle, while clearly a supporter, really doesn't qualify either. She has been sharing her views, like the rest of us. What I consider Bernie Bros are those, usually young men, who clearly have bones to pick with progressive ideology, but support Bernie because they want what he speaks about economically. Of course, they only want it for themselves, though. They don't really want women or poc to receive those same benefits, so we see the dichotomy of them supporting Bernie, but also being extremely anti-woman and anti-poc. This becomes very clear when you understand those that say they would vote for either Bernie or Trump, as their ideology could not be further apart.

I will say that I do believe that honest supporters of Bernie can easily get unwittingly drawn into pushing the same agenda that the Bernie Bros want simply by reposting the memes and dishonest videos. I've seen some of that happening here. To that I say, vet your sources strongly before sharing them anywhere online. The last thing we need is another 2016 where people are sharing propaganda or hit pieces that are dishonest.

Second, Brian is a very smart poster. He knows what he is talking about and provides great information for us here. He may have lost his temper here yesterday, but I would go to the wall to defend him and his viewpoint because like everyone else here, he wants what is best for our country. In addition, I understand his exasperation. I understand where it is coming from.

Finally, yes Bernie is an old, white guy. He may be Jewish, but he is still an old, white guy in many of his views. Some of that may be simply due to his age and the era he has lived in. Some of that, I believe, and Soen hinted at, is that some things are just not a priority for him. He has a razor like focus on economic issues with a strong focus on the white, middle class. Perhaps he believes that a rising tide lifts all boats, but I don't believe that to be true; not at all. Historically, that is simply not how it has worked in this country. He has also made some really unfortunate comments such as "I don't believe all white voters who are uncomfortable voting for a black person are racist." It shows that he really doesn't get it. You don't have to be wearing a Klan hood to display racism. It is also not the only time that he has displayed a remarkable disdain for people who have lived lives that don't mirror his own.

If it comes down to it and he wins the nomination, of course I will vote for him. Echoing Shiloh, we HAVE to remove Trump. Even the remaining two years is too long. I just find it really unfortunate, and it does anger me, that Bernie couldn't find it in himself to pass the torch to the next generation.

 

[Spirits Rising]

Just to make clear why I put a Disagree above ...

It is one thing to want/wish the country's Left to pull more in the direction of what "Left" means in the rest of the world and quite another to abandon (or sound as if one is abandoning) pragmatism.

The simple reality is that the last time around, too many who were "energized" tossed their hands in the air and said Fuck It when their candidate lost the primary. This in addition to those who turned around and simply didn't bother - no matter their reasoning.

Sorry - that's how it is and what happened. Poll data really does mean jack fucking shit, like it or not.

 

[Han Held]

I appreciate the vote of confidence, Jolene -but the difference is that you, and most (not all, but most) people on VV1 can discuss the issues and exchange points of views without turning into frothing assholes -even if they get heated.

Brian's stepped several leagues past that. I didn't mute him for shits and giggles. I muted him because that's consistently his approach and I don't need that shit in my life. No one does.

For me, the most important issue is income inequality and restoring the gains of the working class (stronger unions, eliminating "right to work" bullshit -which I don't think any candidates have addressed?) and restoring the social safety net. To the best of my knowlege, Bernie has the closest posistions to my own on those issues. Even tho right now he's my first choice, that might change -I'm watching the field and haven't made up my mind who I'll support in the primary.

At the end of the day in 2016 I voted for Hillary, despite everything -whoever is the D on the ballot will be who I vote for in 2020. But my strong preference is for someone who prioritizes the needs of the working class, not the upper or profesional classes.

 

[Jolene Benoir]

I have a sense that personally, Sanders just isn't a nice guy; I don't know if that's just a gut thing or if there's something I've read but forgotten. Not in the trump way, but in the "That isn't a priority with me" sort of way.

This article highlights some of his weaknesses as perceived by many. I, personally, think it is really unfair to expect people to get at the back of the line...again. He is dismissive of many folks' concerns and that is troubling.

As an aside: That quote comes from the time he visited Patrick Henry High School. My brothers and sister went to school there and that is my neighborhood. We tend to be among the most liberal people in the country, our state voted for him in the last primary, yet even among us there are those that have issue with how he presents himself on a number of issues.

I recommend reading the entire article to see some other issues.

Here’s That Time Bernie Sanders Bellowed ‘I’ve Said Black 50 Times’ at Black Audience, and Why

Edit: Another one, this time voices of his constituents from 2016.
Vermont’s Black Leaders: We Were ‘Invisible’ to Bernie Sanders

 

[Cristalle]

It didn't have to get hot in here. So what if he runs? We can all disagree, see what happens, and move on. There was zero reason for anyone to go off the rails just because he ran. It's not like we didn't see it coming. People have expressed support for all kinds of candidates here and we've had discussions about ideas but only Brian went out of his way to attack people.

As to that article: it's trying to smear Bernie as a racist and it's failing. He is clearly trying to unify instead of divide. He speaks about class more than anything else and is inartfully making that point. It is legit for people to ask for reparations, where he stands on that. That is more than fair. I don't necessarily agree with him that reparations are not feasible. But he's not alone in that, I don't think that any candidate other than Marianne Williamson does. But he should not be unfairly singled out for that, the same way he's being unfairly singled out for sexism in his campaign when both Hillary Clinton and Kamala Harris have had staffers settle sexual harassment complaints. I thought that a society where people are judged based on the content of their character was the goal? That should also include straight, old, white men. Any fair analysis reveals that many of his policies would disproportionately benefit black communities. "Yeah, but he's old and white" just comes off really sour to me after that.

As a matter of basic math, you have to have white voters as part of the mix. He is not focused solely on whites. Just by the math, the working class is almost pretty evenly split between minorities and whites. When he speaks of ordinary Americans, he is talking about the lion's share of people who don't make hundreds of thousands of dollars. It doesn't mean coddling racism, it does mean that we don't have to alienate them with our rhetoric. That is why putting a premium on identity over policy is bad. That's why conservative kooks like Candace Owens have no traction. Her policy is shit, her blackness is not a reason to support her. Policy first. There is no reason why Democrats, historically the party of the working class, should lose any portion of the working class. That is his point when he says “I come from the white working class, and I am deeply humiliated that the Democratic Party cannot talk to where I came from.” That is a problem, and it's stupid if the party thinks it can win without them. It can't.

 

[Jolene Benoir]

See...now while I see it clearly as written by someone who does not like Bernie, I still think it is relevant. Very relevant. I also do believe it is coddling racism. Why else would you say that we should not "alienate" them (middle class whites) with our rhetoric? As I said before he is giving cover to some people to again claim that they are voting only for their economic interest when clearly that is not their overriding interest.

Are you really using the right wing argument of "identity politics"? Wow. This is what I mean when I say some of his supporters are unwittingly helping the opposition. If we cannot have an honest discussion about race, racism and its effects without "alienating" some people why do you believe that people should vote for someone who doesn't want to be their voice?

Why should some people continue to suck it up when politicians refuse to address their concerns and are outright dismissive of them? You say that, with his focus upon economics that naturally includes poc. I say that has never, ever been the case in this country. There are a ton of instances in which white people alone benefited from economic policy designed to address inequality.

 

[Kara Spengler]

As for all this: DUH. No shit, Sherlock.

What is important is to have advocates who will move the Overton Window in the right direction. Mealy mouthed centrism will not do that. Dynamic people like Bernie and AOC are shifting the conversation and reframing things away from the usual right wing point of view that pundits feed us on TV. We are having more honest conversations about what's possible because they're not afraid to be bold.

Yes, I am not looking as much at 2020 as the elections after it. Pretty much the ONLY reason why there is not a massive call to draft AOC is because she would not be old enough .... can you imagine the call for her to run as soon as she hits 35 though? Plus she is not the only person in that position, just the one with the most name recognition. Up-and-coming Ds are more likely to see that centrism had its day and failed big time. They do not see words like socialist as a bad thing, they realize their peers are more intelligent. Also remember we are talking about a generation that did not grow up with stuff like McCarthyism and the cold war ..... their models for socialism are the NHS and nordic countries.

 

[Han Held]

Why should some people continue to suck it up when politicians refuse to address their concerns and are outright dismissive of them? You say that, with his focus upon economics that naturally includes poc. I say that has never, ever been the case in this country. There are a ton of instances in which white people alone benefited from economic policy designed to address inequality.

So, what I'm reading here is that those of us who are primarily concerned with income inequality should pound sand, because it can only be one or the other.

Am I reading you correctly?

 

[Jolene Benoir]

So, what I'm reading here is that those of us who are primarily concerned with income inequality should pound sand, because it can only be one or the other.

Am I reading you correctly?

Ha. No. I happen to be a person highly concerned with income inequality. It is a huge issue for me. Why do you think I voted for him the first time and why I primarily support Warren now? Well, it is not the only reason, but a fairly large one.

When you say, primarily concerned, does that mean it's your exclusive concern regardless of other things to take into consideration? I recognize the talk of raising all boats and I just don't see it. I do appreciate that it is a concern but what really, really bothers me is that antagonism I am seeing toward even discussing how and why race is entangled within inequality. Why can't that be a discussion worth having? Why is it dismissed because we don't want to "alienate" some people?

It is a discussion long overdue. When politicians come talking about ridding ourselves of inequality and then dismiss those who have experienced the very worst of it, my hackles are raised. It's asking people to just sit at the back of the bus....again, while we deal with these white folks economic issues and their insecurities about being confronted with racism.

So...no, I'm not saying you should pound sand, lol. I am asking that you widen your view and take into consideration the opinion of those who aren't all that thrilled to have yet another "great white wonder" who doesn't see them.

 

[Cristiano]

Bernie, your moment has come — and gone

 

[Cristalle]

See...now while I see it clearly as written by someone who does not like Bernie, I still think it is relevant. Very relevant. I also do believe it is coddling racism. Why else would you say that we should not "alienate" them (middle class whites) with our rhetoric? As I said before he is giving cover to some people to again claim that they are voting only for their economic interest when clearly that is not their overriding interest.

Are you really using the right wing argument of "identity politics"? Wow. This is what I mean when I say some of his supporters are unwittingly helping the opposition. If we cannot have an honest discussion about race, racism and its effects without "alienating" some people why do you believe that people should vote for someone who doesn't want to be their voice?

Why should some people continue to suck it up when politicians refuse to address their concerns and are outright dismissive of them? You say that, with his focus upon economics that naturally includes poc. I say that has never, ever been the case in this country. There are a ton of instances in which white people alone benefited from economic policy designed to address inequality.

I appreciate the article from one point of view but the purpose of it is clear to me, and it's to paint Bernie as a racist instead of just saying that he doesn't support reparations as a policy matter.

As for "identity politics," I come to the issue as a black woman who is conscious of how image often trumps substance. Black people have long had people coming to their community for votes but have not reaped economic gains. That is just history. It's not "helping the opposition" to point that out. Black people are, more and more, looking for something in return for their votes - as they ought to. That's what politics is about. That is why I mentioned Candace Owens. That woman is a conservative nutjob. She's slick, though, and if people put too much of a premium on her image, we would be hurt by her substance. There are some people who have been fooled by her and people like her, because she's still a powerful black woman. Let me not use Candace, though. Let's look at someone like Mia Love. Black, immigrant, conservative, worked her way up to being an elected representative. That's pretty powerful, and when she speaks, it could fool you if you valued her representation over her policies which do absolutely nothing for black people who aren't already wealthy.

I certainly think that we as a nation can have an honest discussion about race and racism. And it will indeed hurt racists. But even I as a black woman can see how it would feel to be a white man and being constantly told to sit down. It's one thing to spread a positive message of inclusivity, it's another thing to be told get out of the way regardless of your values. Any president we have has to govern over all our communities and by the numbers, whites are still a significant portion of our country.

I feel like you're conflating the issue of not having people represent your interests with the identity of the person in the seat. Conversely, using that logic, how are people of color thus able to represent the interests of white people? That's a dangerous line of logic to go down. In the past it has been true that minority issues have not been represented and it is in part because the people in the seats of power have only catered to their own. But the modern class of liberals is different - at least, so I hope. But singling Bernie out on this issue is not fair. What is Amy Klobuchar going to do for black people? What is Kamala Harris going to do for black people? What is Kirsten Gillibrand going to do for black people? What is Cory Booker going to do for black people? That answer has to be demanded of all of them, not just Bernie.

I understand and think it's fair to discuss whether or not a color blind policy only helps whites but when you focus on the specifics here - like the $15 minimum wage - that ain't so.

 

[Jolene Benoir]

I have to run, so I am only going to address one thing, quickly...perhaps to return to other points later.

The reason that Bernie is being singled out is that he has a clear history of refusing to have that discussion, in some cases getting quite angry that it is even being brought up.

More to add, later.

 

[Cristalle]

I have to run, so I am only going to address one thing, quickly...perhaps to return to other points later.

The reason that Bernie is being singled out is that he has a clear history of refusing to have that discussion, in some cases getting quite angry that it is even being brought up.

More to add, later.

In that embedded video, where the author cutely tries to fact check that which was an obvious joke (I said black 50 times, this is the 51st), he explains pretty clearly that he sees the wealthy using race to divide us as a class. This is the direct result of his socialist-leaning world view, and he's not necessarily wrong about that. Racial divisions are the main reason why there is no solidarity in the working class. White people loved Medicare, Social Security and welfare so long as "undeserving people" didn't get it. When it was extended to everyone, what an uproar! Think about how different the world would be if poor people of all kinds worked in solidarity instead of sniping over which group is "undeserving."

 

[Veritable Quandry]

I have to run

So we can add you to the list of declared candidates now?

 

[Brian]

This is really uncalled for.

You have managed to miss all the posts I've made, or replied to, about conversion therapy. This is a core issue for me as once again I'm entangled with LGBTQ* Mormons (and ex-Mormons) in the Intermountain West.

I'm from northern New England and Bernie is one of us. That's why we kept electing him. He's done a lot of good. I believe he is too old to be a two term President, and we need someone younger. I'm also leaning toward Warren. She's also one of us!

All politics is local.

I never once considered including you in that post. Supporting Sanders for Vermont, in 2016, or agreeing with policy is not the same thing as promoting his presidential candidacy today. I also liked him in 2016; I didn't even start defending HRC until mid-year when the hit pieces I knew were outright bs went viral like wildfire.

I am not against Warren by any stretch. I see her a little too close to being rejected by base Dem voters for reasons already stated (and some I avoided), yet still very much viable.

I don't pretend to always be able to moderate my communications either. Probably a good thing I haven't tried to run for office. I admire Innula's ability to do this, and aim for it sometimes. Other times, forget it. I often agree with Spirits for good reasons.

I hate that political left fighting is where it's at now, but there's little I alone could do to change that. I am sure some of the barrage against Sanders will be harsh, some of it over the line. I won't be able to limit that from others also. Too many intend to make sure he gets not only the vetting he was completely spared of in 2016, but the same degree of vilification.

With his own refusal to learn, accept, and display the core concept of coalition building in politics, choosing instead to ride a permanent, popular, simpleton view of poor us against the man, where anyone you can find disagreement with is that man, how will that ever change? The only way it can be alleviated from one side only, without self-reflection from him and his supporters, is to unveil how in reality, he is also that man.

 

[Ryanna Enfield]

No candidate will be perfect on EVERY issue but I feel I have to address this one. He is approaching guns from a rural POV rather than an urban one. In states like VT they are just seen as another tool, mass shootings are not as much of an issue. When I was a kid in NH my dad had several rifles (no pistols, however he was a revolutionary war reenactor, in the military, and had them for misc reasons on a farm/part of forest where police were not always able to get there ASAP), us kids just took them for granted and knew not to touch them.

I get that Bernie grew up with a rural POV, but I did not. None of the candidates get a pass on the all important gun issue from me. This doesn't mean I wouldn't vote for a candidate because I view them as lenient on gun regulations. The Democratic field is full of candidates who don't even have the courage to touch gun regulation. A huge percentage of my fellow Americans think that every household should have an AR15. Unfortunately, they would be his constituents too. It just means it is an important issue to me, and I factor that into my vote. Maybe he would like to know that, or maybe he doesn't GAF.