Coronavirus Updates

[Aribeth Zelin]

Let's try not to make more of it than it is. It is a flu like virus. No mega killer like the plague or ebola.
This is what I found out so far (mainly through German TV who cover the new outbreaks excellent IMHO):

Biggest difference we us that we had no vaccination for this one, so the more vulnerable people have to be more careful than in a 'normal' flue season. Death toll is higher than with a regular flue because of that.

Most infected people only have mild symptoms. Staying home (so you don't spread the virus further) wash your hands regular with soap for about 20 seconds (2x Happy Birthday song). No testing needed. Doctors can do nothing for you. You have to sit it out. Paracetamol or Ibuprofen is your friend.
When you have to cough or to sneeze never in your hand: paper towels and if not available: In your elbow to avoid spreading. Towels in a plastic bag right after usage. Wash hands ASAP.

Let family or neighbors get your groceries if possible (they can put it at your front door, but they can come in as well as long as you stay about 2 meters away from each other and wash their hands when they get at home, without touching their mouth before that).

If you get more severe symptoms like serious fever, breathing problems, chest pain: Call your doctors office or hospital for advise. Don't go there, you might only infect more people. The medics will take it from there and tread you as good as is possible.

It is basically the same as with the flu.

Some media and especially the social media are hyping as always.

Maybe its because american health care is already pretty crap for most folks, and unprepared, that makes it scary

 

[Luisa Land]

I think everyone is trying to deal with the threat of this disease developing. And if you feel a lot of anxiety, it's not irrational per se, it also depends a lot on your personal life situation.
Risk factors such as age, previous illnesses, is my job, my income secure? do I have to care for children, sick family members, etc.?
how am I cared for in case of serious illness, what happens if my partner becomes seriously ill
and there are certainly many more considerations that can cause anxiety.
And if you take a much more relaxed view of it, it's perfectly ok
too

but of course, if I have a President Donald Trump, who has everything under control, everything will be fine

 

[Eunoli]

but of course, if I have a President Donald Trump, who has everything under control, everything will be fine

Just remember, if you catch the virus, you're not sick - you're part of a conspiracy to make Trump look bad...

 

[Eunoli]

Let's try not to make more of it than it is. It is a flu like virus. No mega killer like the plague or ebola.
This is what I found out so far (mainly through German TV who cover the new outbreaks excellent IMHO):

Biggest difference we us that we had no vaccination for this one, so the more vulnerable people have to be more careful than in a 'normal' flu season. Death toll is higher than with a regular flue because of that.

Its important to remember that it appears to have a very high transmission rate and can stay hidden with no symptoms for up to a month. That makes it different from and more dangerous than the normal flu.

 

[Rose Karuna]

Maybe its because american health care is already pretty crap for most folks, and unprepared, that makes it scary

Absolutely, because everyone here knows even if you have insurance you could end up just like this guy: https://www.miamiherald.com/news/health-care/article240476806.html

Which is why it will spread like wildfire here. Even conscientious people won't go to the hospital because of the cost and most people don't have primary care physicians they can go to (there is a serious shortage of GPs here in the US). Nor will they be allowed time off work.

So what will they do? They will continue on, business as usual, and spread the virus. Sadly, Trumps down play of the whole thing really perpetuates this as well. I have already heard from some family members Trump said "more people die of the flu every year, there is nothing to be worried about".

Maybe there aren't for them but there may be dire consequences for the person that's elderly or who has a compromised immune system that they pass it to because they did not self quarantine.

 

[Sid]

Its important to remember that it appears to have a very high transmission rate and can stay hidden with no symptoms for up to a month. That makes it different from and more dangerous than the normal flu.

All over the world they stick to a incubation time of 14 days.
That will not be for nothing I guess. (Or do they all want Trump to look bad?)
Why bother to take all kind of sometimes draconian measures and than stick to the wrong number of days?

There are lots of rumors out there.
And yes, the double check principle is a bit loosing ground in the press. Logical, but not desirable.
One hour later than the rest and you have most likely the more correct story but also yesterdays news.

 

[Eunoli]

All over the world they stick to a incubation time of 14 days.
That will not be for nothing I guess. (Or do they all want Trump to look bad?)
Why bother to take all kind of sometimes draconian measures and than stick to the wrong number of days?

I think the issue is that they thought it was 14 days and then someone tested positive after 27 a few days ago.

 

[Soen Eber]

All of the candidates - including What'shizname - are going to be attending rallies with 10's of thousands of people. At the rate this disease spreads and our current health care system, It's an even bet that both he and Sanders will be either dead or actively spreading the disease (since some "recovered" patients in China are still infectious). I'm afraid to draw any conclusions from this

 

[Eunoli]

All of the candidates - including What'shizname - are going to be attending rallies with 10's of thousands of people. At the rate this disease spreads and our current health care system, It's an even bet that both he and Sanders will be either dead or actively spreading the disease (since some "recovered" patients in China are still infectious). I'm afraid to draw any conclusions from this

This is part of the problem with candidates in their late 70s. They're at far higher risk of death than most of the population.

And is it wrong of me to say that I feel that some of a certain politician's followers might go to dem rallies on purpose if they know they're infected?

 

[Beebo Brink]

I think everyone is trying to deal with the threat of this disease developing. And if you feel a lot of anxiety, it's not irrational per se, it also depends a lot on your personal life situation.

We're still unsure of so many details (which is in itself worrisome), but there are strong indications that COVID-19 is easily transmissible, communicable when many people aren't feeling bad enough to realize they are ill, and often fatal to people in the highest risk group of elderly with underlying conditions. Add the possibility that 14-days is not sufficient for quarantine and/or that people do not develop immunity to this pathogen, and you have the recipe for a very unpleasant year. Not the end of the world, not an ebola-level decimation of life as we know it, but still a very-not-fun-time for many countries.

On this forum alone, I know of at least dozen of us who are at high risk if we catch any influenza virus, but now we have to additionally avoid COVID-19. Every year I get vaccinated for pneumonia and flu, which offers some (fingers crossed) protection, but there is none for COVID-19 and probably won't be for the forseeable future.

I'm not going to panic this year, anymore than any other year, but It's ridiculous to minimize the potential danger.

As a thought experiment, consider the possibility that only 200 people on VVO end up infected with COVID-19, out of the many hundreds who are members. That's still 4 people that we know who are likely to die (perhaps more if we skew older and infirm, which I believe is the case) of that infection.

 

[Essence Lumin]

And is it wrong of me to say that I feel that some of a certain politician's followers might go to dem rallies on purpose if they know they're infected?

Ouch. Not wrong, but that is a grim thought.

 

[Stora]

NHS urges staff to shave beards in fight against coronavirus

NHS staff have been asked to shave their beards to allow masks to fit more securely in a bid to limit the spread of coronavirus.
Southampton University NHS Trust sent a mass email to workers to tackle the "known problem" of ill-fitting masks on bearded faces.
Medical director Derek Sanderman attached an image from the United State's Centres for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) showing 36 different kinds of facial hair and whether they can fit inside a mask.

NHS urges staff to shave beards in fight against coronavirus

 

[Arilynn]

Let's try not to make more of it than it is. It is a flu like virus. No mega killer like the plague or ebola.

The plague, is caused by a bacterium, Yersinia pestis, that can be treated by several commonly available antibiotics. According to the CDC, the US averages 7 cases a year, with most years having no associated deaths. Transmission is usually confined to the western US and involves infected rodents and fleas. Infection confers immunity.

Ebola is only spread through direct contact with an infected person’s bodily fluids or from infected bats and non-human primates. It tends to burn itself out due to its high mortality. Infection confers immunity.

The flu is a well-studied virus, so much is known about its transmission, mortality and morbidity rates, severity, prevention, and control. There are testing, treatment, and public health processes and structures in place, along with a vaccine.

Covid-19
- Transmission: beyond close contact, unknown; maybe aerosol or fecal/oral
- Role of fomites such as countertops in transmission: unknown
- Limits of virus’ viability in different conditions such as temperature and humidity: unknown
- Mortality rate: 1-2%, maybe?
- Non-human reservoir: “The most likely ecological reservoirs for SARS-CoV-2 are bats, but it is believed that the virus jumped the species barrier to humans from another intermediate animal host. This intermediate animal host could be a domestic food animal, a wild animal, or a domesticated wild animal which has not yet been identified.” - WHO
- Ability of clinicians to distinguish mild infection from the common cold or flu without testing: none
- Ability of clinicians to test samples locally: none as the CDC must test all samples
- Most effective and readily available standard(s) of care: unknown
- Efficacy of adjunctive treatment, given with supportive care: unknown
- Efficacy of 14-day quarantine: unknown, but appears to not be 100%
- Understanding of the range of severity in similar individuals: beyond males’ immunity appearing to be less, none aside from guesses about unknown genetic differences
- Long-term outlook for survivors of severe infection: unknown
- Factors that lead to China’s morbidity and mortality rate among healthcare workers: unknown as China refuses to release complete data
- Infection confers immunity: unknown
- Vaccine: none
- Ability of the US healthcare system, businesses, schools, and other major institutions to deal with an epidemic: from what I’ve read, zero

I‘m not stockpiling, panicking, or changing my habits/routine. But if It becomes a community-acquired disease in my region, I will change what I’m doing, especially given all the unknowns and lack of an effective public health response and infrastructure.

 

[Pamela]

So to quote our &$#@*&$ genius leader, everything is fine, because April.

 

[Caliandris]

What I find infuriating is the lack of consistency, even within a single country. In the UK there have been people flown home from various places and sent to remote quarantine locations, made to stay for 14 days. Meanwhile flights from China with visibly sick people have arrived and there has not even been a poster to tell them to self-isolate or contact the authorities. Children locally at one school who holidayed in the relevant part of Italy (who knew so many school children were going there for holidays?) have been told to self-isolate for 14 days and NOT to come to school, the other secondary school which did a very similar trip has been told it isn't necessary for kids and teachers to self isolate.

I think what I find the most frightening about the virus is the lack of consistent, authoritative information. There were reassuring advices from (I think) the US government saying that parcels despatched from China were not a risk, as the virus could only live about three hours out of the body... but then some actual medical research seemed to show that was vastly over-optimistic, and the virus could live on surfaces for about nine days... and a lot longer if the conditions of cool and humidity were met. Knowing proper answers to those questions would seem to be essential for avoiding the spread of disease, but there seems to be nothing but misinformation and contradiction all around.

The guy from WHO, Walter Ricciardi, went around telling people not to panic, using the 'flu as an example of something which is constantly killing people around us and said that “We must scale back this great alarm...3% die. Furthermore, as you know, all the people who died already had serious health conditions." As if to say, don't panic, only the old and sick die, and so YOU don't need to worry. Well it doesn't seem to be restricted to the old and sick, and even if it were, there are quite a lot of people I love who are one of those things, and I'd prefer not to lose them, thanks.

I have a son with Crohn's disease, who has to take two powerful immune suppressants. Yes, I'm worrying about it. Not least because our local county hospital is failing to cope with their workload under normal circumstances, due to the underfunding of the government - who can find money for stupid railway infrastructure projects or ridiculous armaments, but can't maintain the funding the NHS needs to stay wonderful. God knows what the situation will be like if - or is it just when now? - covid 19 hits. Of course I want to make him come home and live in the attic, but I can't. I moved from London to Lincolnshire and have been thoroughly shocked at the great disparity in services and investment in the East Midlands. It's like another country altogether.

I have maintained a store cupboard of food for some time, in anticipation of Brexit, and I have added to that. The reason I have done that is because I can foresee there being problems in the food supply around here if everyone is told to stay at home to avoid spreading the infection. Living in rural Lincolnshire has many positives, but shortages of drugs have already begun to bite here, for reasons that are not obvious, and it makes me nervous about the ability of the country to respond if we do have a lock-down situation. This just-in-time thing has considerable downsides in a situation where supply lines get delayed or cut.

And another thing... in countries like the Netherlands they have already made the public aware that using anti-bacterial products is contributing to antibiotic resistance, and that soap and water are perfectly adequate for handwashing, and trials show that is better in fact than anti-bacterial gel hand sanitizers, but the British public (and manufacturers) do not seem to have got the same memo. I see hand sanitizer everywhere, anti-bacterial products for cleaning your dishwasher, washing machine, bathroom and carpets, clothing, kitchens and bathrooms etc are ubiquitous, and people are using them thinking that they are protecting their families and doing the "right" thing hurling anti-bacterial everything at themselves and their homes.

Finally... in a lot of the articles about China, people have talked about N95 standard masks as the gold standard. What I hadn't appreciated until I heard a talk on radio about it, is that these have one-way valves in them which protect the wearer, but do not protect the people around the wearer. This is the reason that people are being advised in the UK to use ordinary surgical masks if they need to, and not the N95 standard versions.

 

[Cristiano]

Whistleblower: HHS Staff Who Met Coronavirus Evacuees Had No Training Or Protection

Health and Human Services staffers interacted with Americans who were quarantined for potential exposure to COVID-19, according to multiple reports.

www.huffpost.com

 

[Kara Spengler]

So much is uncertain, when do you need to see a doctor for a test?
I mean, colds and flu virusses are active as well at the moment. So I guess most people with those symptoms simply will wait and see for at least a week. There are no guidelines published about that subject so far.
My guess: It is spreading quicker than security measurements can be taken.

Yes, like many other things they do how this administration is reacting is criminal.

 

[Kara Spengler]

Just remember, if you catch the virus, you're not sick - you're part of a conspiracy to make Trump look bad...

He is doing that all on his own. Like declaring (with no data) that it would stop once it got warmer.

 

[Essence Lumin]

He is doing that all on his own. Like declaring (with no data) that it would stop once it got warmer.

In April.

 

[Kara Spengler]

In April.

He has not been outside. While we are having a short cold snap in dc (although still warm for February) it has been pretty warm here all winter.