Coronavirus Updates

Romana

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As a lupus patient who was on Plaquenil for about six months I can tell you that it does have side effects, arrhythmia and heart murmur are only one of them. The side effect that I had that caused me to quit taking it, was extremely high pressure in my eyes. It can cause blindness. Plaquenil Side Effects on Your Eyes and Vision

People on Plaquenil have to be monitored. Since I was given the Plaquenil to essentially suppress my immune system, my guess is that it only helps in cases where the COVID-19 patient has a cytokine storm, in other cases, where the patient needs to fight the virus, it would work against them. There are no really good immune suppression drugs, they all have nasty side effects.
I'm sorry to hear you had that side effect. I hope you found a medication you can take!
It doesn't surprise me patients have to be monitored; I have to be monitored for a couple of my medications.
And you are probably right in the money about the cytokine storm.
A lot of medications can have nasty side effects, unfortunately; recently I looked up a couple of mine on Drugs.com to see if there were any interactions with supplements I was contemplating taking. I found out the meds for my adrenal insufficiency can cause seizures--rarely, and probably in much higher doses. In any case, I have to take them or I can get very sick. I don't worry about this because of my endocrinologist's expertise in this area.
My brother told me about Plaquenil weeks ago, way before Dump said or probably knew. He said it was very safe, but I suppose that meant when given correctly and monitored. And probably taking into account the patient's history.
I've had side effects that weren't even listed, fortunately from anti-anxiety meds where there were other choices, but I think it's safe to say it can happen with anything, or almost. So it depends on the circumstances, and if things were grave my brother would consult with writer was treating me like he did when I was first diagnosed with the adrenal thing. And if he thought it was indicated, I'd take it because I trust him.
Of course I hope it never comes to that, for any of us.
 
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Seheult has never mentioned that hydroxycholoroquine suppresses your immune system or that it would be useful only in a cytokine storm. I think he would have mentioned that. According to him, it has two known potential anti-viral effects in vitro. Whether it works in vivo is a different question. After all, Remdesivi worked in vitro against Ebola but not in live patients.

Reading the side effects on www.drugs.com , they warn up top:

"Taking hydroxychloroquine long-term or at high doses may cause irreversible damage to the retina of your eye. Stop taking this medicine and call your doctor at once if you have trouble focusing, if you see light streaks or flashes in your vision, or if you notice any swelling or color changes in your eyes."

They refer to long QT side effects only indirectly, which was odd considering the publicity that has received.

I agree with Romana that side effects are always an issue. That's why prescription drugs require a prescription. Even over the counter drugs can kill you. (Tylenol anyone?) I got a pneumonia vaccine a little while ago. One possible side effect? Pneumonia.

ETA: I suspect the talk of affecting the immune system is about azithromycin. That's a separate drug.
 
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Kara Spengler

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If anyone's looking, Newegg.com has them. Forget about Amazon; nothing sold by Amazon themselves, and the prices are hiked as you'd expect.
Anything popular sells out on amazon in seconds. My parents called from Florida seeing if I could find yeast on there with my prime membership.
 

Innula Zenovka

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Anything popular sells out on amazon in seconds. My parents called from Florida seeing if I could find yeast on there with my prime membership.
I think that's a world-wide thing. I was in an online work-related group meeting last night and, while we were chatting before the formal meeting started, colleagues in both Poland and Italy talked about how how difficult it was to find yeast online and in local stores, and several other people (including, I think, one of the other Brits) agreed they were having similar problems finding it for their baking.

So it's certainly not just Amazon.
 

Aribeth Zelin

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I think that's a world-wide thing. I was in an online work-related group meeting last night and, while we were chatting before the formal meeting started, colleagues in both Poland and Italy talked about how how difficult it was to find yeast online and in local stores, and several other people (including, I think, one of the other Brits) agreed they were having similar problems finding it for their baking.

So it's certainly not just Amazon.
We scored the last bag of whole wheat flour this morning because even though my spouse and fellow diabetic is supposed to be doing keto with me, he wants to make bread as a treat, and well, can't blame him at this point. But yeah, yeast is impossible to find right now.
 

Bartholomew Gallacher

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Luc Montagnier, the virologist who discovered the HIV virus and earned a nobel prize for it, has an idea different from the main stream on how the new coronavirus strain came into being.

Montagnier sequenced the RNA of the virus and claims to have founds parts of the HIV genome in it. He is sure about that such a sharing of genomes between viruses in bodies is not possible, so let's say a corona virus infected a human who suffered from AIDS and therefore got parts of this genome into its own. Since he is so sure about that this happened not naturally he comes to the conclusion that this virus strain must be the result of scientific research on an anti AIDS vaccine.

Since a high security virus laboratory is located in Wuhan he thinks it is quite possible that a security breach happened, and this virus strain came into nature that way we are all suffering now.

It is well known that in 2011 US and Chinese researchers visited a big bat population in South China in order to collect excrement and spit samples, in which they found until then 27 unknown virus types. They already found a SARS similar virus which uses its spike to attach at the ACE2 receptors of the human mouth and published these results 2013 in Nature Medicine (Isolation and characterization of a bat SARS-like coronavirus that uses the ACE2 receptor).

Then they made research with these samples, and the strains were used to infect bat, mice, human cells to observe how this stuff is changing if changing its host. The result of this research was published 2015 in an article named "A SARS-like cluster of circulating bat coronaviruses shows potential for human emergence" (A SARS-like cluster of circulating bat coronaviruses shows potential for human emergence). This was the end of the joint research between the USA and PRC.

This article documents that indeed those viruses have been artificially genetically altered. A view days after it was released a big debate was going on, this is what Nature Medicine had to tell the world about it (Engineered bat virus stirs debate over risky research):

An experiment that created a hybrid version of a bat coronavirus — one related to the virus that causes SARS (severe acute respiratory syndrome) — has triggered renewed debate over whether engineering lab variants of viruses with possible pandemic potential is worth the risks.

In an article published in Nature Medicine1 on 9 November, scientists investigated a virus called SHC014, which is found in horseshoe bats in China. The researchers created a chimaeric virus, made up of a surface protein of SHC014 and the backbone of a SARS virus that had been adapted to grow in mice and to mimic human disease. The chimaera infected human airway cells — proving that the surface protein of SHC014 has the necessary structure to bind to a key receptor on the cells and to infect them. It also caused disease in mice, but did not kill them.

Although almost all coronaviruses isolated from bats have not been able to bind to the key human receptor, SHC014 is not the first that can do so. In 2013, researchers reported this ability for the first time in a different coronavirus isolated from the same bat population

The findings reinforce suspicions that bat coronaviruses capable of directly infecting humans (rather than first needing to evolve in an intermediate animal host) may be more common than previously thought, the researchers say.

But other virologists question whether the information gleaned from the experiment justifies the potential risk. Although the extent of any risk is difficult to assess, Simon Wain-Hobson, a virologist at the Pasteur Institute in Paris, points out that the researchers have created a novel virus that “grows remarkably well” in human cells. “If the virus escaped, nobody could predict the trajectory,” he says.


Anyway, Nature Medicine has a big fat warning above the article that in their opinion there's no evidence that the coronavirus COVID19 was genetically engineered.

Also in 2008 Chinese scientists were successfully working on genetically modifying a bat coronavirus in such a way that it can bind itself on ACE2 receptors, which was published in this paper: Difference in Receptor Usage between Severe Acute Respiratory Syndrome (SARS) Coronavirus and SARS-Like Coronavirus of Bat Origin

This study indeed worked with HIV genome in order to genetically modify the virus; it was not direclty injected into the genome, but could have happened due to unwanted exchanges.

There has also been an Indian study which came to similar conclusions that the new type of coronavirus is the result of bioengineering, but was withdrawn by its authors. Official explanation: statistical errors.

Anyway, the reputation of Montagnier at the moment is not the best compared to former times because he supports homeopathy, and his opinion is not well received at all. What is fact though is that in Wuhan the high security laboratory worked in a joint effort research program with the USA on corona viruses from bats, and genetically modified them - and that's it.

For example the claim "the new strain of corona virus contains HIV parts" by Montagnier is being disputed here, but also look into the comments for valuable context as well: No, SARS-CoV-2 does not contain HIV genetic code!
 
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Bartholomew Gallacher

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The USA are demanding that China should close its wildlife wet markets permanently. This is a demand which makes actually quite much sense.

“Given the strong link between illegal wildlife sold in wet markets and zoonotic diseases, the United States has called on the People’s Republic of China to permanently close its wildlife wet markets and all markets that sell illegal wildlife,” Pompeo said in a statement late on Wednesday.

 
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Caliandris

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As it happens, I received a text the other day from the NHS medical practice where I'm registered (that is, my family doctor) telling me that they're participating in a large-scale clinical trial of hydroxychloroquine as a treatment for COVID-19, as part of a rolling national programme to evaluate different treatments as and when they become available:



So I think it may be premature to say it's "completely ineffective, if not downright dangerous" since the trials are presumably intended to determine all that.
You need to watch this video, which debunks the research which showed that hydroxychloroquine doesn't work. Be very suspicious about the research which seems to have been badly done and sponsored by the pharma company producing Remdesivir. If you look at the vlog a few days earlier, he took the Stamford research apart which has now been withdrawn.
 
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Innula Zenovka

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You need to watch this video, which debunks the research which showed that hydroxychloroquine doesn't work. Be very suspicious about the research which seems to have been badly done and sponsored by the pharma company producing Remdesivir. If you look at the vlog a few days earlier, he took the Stamford research apart which has now been withdrawn.
Sorry, but why do I need to watch it?

Serious question -- Oxford University and the Nuffield Foundation think the trial is worth running and the practice where I'm registered thinks it's worth participating in the trials.

That suggests to me that two of the top medical research bodies in the country, if not the world, don't know whether or not hydroxychloroquine works for people suffering from Covid-19, or whether it works for some groups of people or not others, or whether it works but there are various specific contraindications, but they think it worth spending a lot of time and money trying to find out, and my GP's practice thinks it won't do any harm, at least, for me to participate in a proper double-blind trial (meaning neither they nor I know whether I'm getting the hydroxychloroquine or a placebo) under their medical supervision if, God forbid, I fall ill from being infected with the virus.

What else do I need to know from Dr YouTube that I can't find out by asking my GP at the time, should I choose to participate in the study?

What does he know that Oxford University, the Nuffield Foundation and my local medical practice don't?

ETA: I use "Dr YouTube" as shorthand for anyone offering medical advice on their own YouTube channel on their own initiative, rather as when I was being treated for cancer I was warned by everyone involved in my treatment that, if I wanted to know anything, they'd be glad to explain as best they could, and that I shouldn't consult "Dr Google" but, instead, to stick to the NHS site, Cancer Research UK, Macmillan Cancer Relief and other similar bodies.

ETA 2: Don't know if anyone finds this run-down on recent surveys useful


 
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Kara Spengler

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We scored the last bag of whole wheat flour this morning because even though my spouse and fellow diabetic is supposed to be doing keto with me, he wants to make bread as a treat, and well, can't blame him at this point. But yeah, yeast is impossible to find right now.
Where did you find flour? It seems everyone that does not normally make bread bought up as much flour and yeast as they could to try it. Of course, most of it will go bad.
 
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Bartholomew Gallacher

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Where did you find flour? It seems everyone that does not normally make bread bought up as much flour and yeast as they could to try it. Of course, most of it will go bad.
I am for myself in a fortunate position: it's not hard to get wheat flour in supermarkets, but rye flour is almost out since weeks. Fortunate enough for me though a local mill has also a shop and it's open, so I can just go there and buy flour there which hasn't been in supermarkets since weeks.

Another new insight on COVID19: it might cause strokes in young adults!

 

Ashiri

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I am for myself in a fortunate position: it's not hard to get wheat flour in supermarkets, but rye flour is almost out since weeks. Fortunate enough for me though a local mill has also a shop and it's open, so I can just go there and buy flour there which hasn't been in supermarkets since weeks.

Another new insight on COVID19: it might cause strokes in young adults!

I guess that's to be expected given all the news about the small blood clots which can occur due to this disease.
 
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Aribeth Zelin

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Where did you find flour? It seems everyone that does not normally make bread bought up as much flour and yeast as they could to try it. Of course, most of it will go bad.
We found it at Publix - spouse had to go get a refill on meds, so went, got the bag of wheat flour, and even scored some toilet paper.
 

Rose Karuna

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Anything popular sells out on amazon in seconds. My parents called from Florida seeing if I could find yeast on there with my prime membership.
I just bought this and checked and they still have it: Robot Check

Hope you're able to get it for them.
 

Casey Pelous

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I just bought this and checked and they still have it: Robot Check

Hope you're able to get it for them.
You bought a POUND of yeast?

Rose (from bushes): PSST! Hey buddy .... want some Rapid-Rise? Uncut, man, I swear! :D
 

Kara Spengler

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I just bought this and checked and they still have it: Robot Check

Hope you're able to get it for them.
Thanks, we saw that yesterday but that is a huge amount of yeast to use before it expires!